Michelle Lynne 122
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): [00:00:00]
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I am super excited. Okay. So first of all, this is the first official interview [00:01:00] podcast since coming back from the, we're reformatting, we're not reformatting and so forth. So I am excited to introduce you to Katie Decker Erickson. She has her MBA and has spent nearly two decades building a multi million dollar firm.
Yes, a multi million dollar interior design firm that operates in over 20 states. Did you hear that? My mouth just dropped open and I fell off my chair. Her most important clients, or MICs, as she calls them, are her nine and seven year old daughters. So Katie, 20 states? Seriously? Hello. Welcome.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): you, Michelle. It's so good to be here. I'm so humbled to be on your show and yeah, that's 20 States over a lot of
years. If you're starting out.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): So very cool. Well, thanks for being here. This is so much fun. I had the pleasure of chatting with you for one of your podcasts. You're on my podcast. Y'all, this is the fun that we have. And this is why I am not just going to sit and [00:02:00] talk into a microphone because there are much more interesting people than just listening to me.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): So I feel, which is why we're having you back on our show again, um, in the not too distant future. yeah, it's a great one. You can have
collaborations.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): absolutely. Absolutely. So. Katie, first question. You ready? What did you have for breakfast today?
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Oh, breakfast, that's an adorable thought. What did I have for breakfast? No. The day just takes off at a freight train's pace. I mean, have a kid, you know how this goes when you have kids, it's just like full barrel ahead.
And then all of a sudden you're like 1130 and you're like, why am I grumpy and why won't my stomach up? And then like. Oh, I should feed myself. That'd be a
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): That's what they call intermittent fasting. You just didn't know that that's what you were doing.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Oh my gosh. It's so funny. You should say that because that term just scares me. I love, love, love food. And so like, when I get there, I'm like all the things that I'm like, who are those people fast?
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): would be you. It was just busy moms that finally gave it a name instead of like freight train.[00:03:00]
Yeah.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): now we feel validated and seen and heard and we just
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): There you go. Absolutely. I think that's how it worked.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): for that.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): So Katie, how did you get started in this business?
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Yeah. It's a really odd story. It's not your typical, I went to college, decided to become an interior designer and moved into that space. My undergraduate degree is actually in communications. And I was fixing and flipping properties Phoenix. That was just something I fell into and loved.
And I got incredibly frustrated that there was no one who understood paint colors. This has got to be like, someone could make millions of dollars doing paint colors. And so I had just finished my master's in business at about the same time as I was flipping and I was like, this just seats up so well together on having a business background.
I want to do something entrepreneurial. I see the need. Let's go get the certifications, which I did through the IACC and do, then I did get my education, my more formal education in design, but it really was just born out of my own [00:04:00] necessity. And I showed up to anyone who's thinking, Oh my gosh, I can't do that.
Yes, you can. I showed up at my first client's job, literally with a cardboard box and about five fan decks. And that was how I started my company was zero
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Okay, so let's start there because I think there's so many listeners who are just striving for perfection before they start anything and speak to that like,
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Oh, I, so yes, I called the paralysis analysis. So you just end up sitting there and you're like, but if I do this better, and maybe if I bring on this person, but I can't really afford that person. You can think yourself out of any action. I always love to say you can't steer a parked car. Sometimes you just got to get moving down the interstate of
life. Right. And then you can say, Oh, I need to take this off ramp, or we got to take this on ramp, or we got to do this. But if you're not moving, you have nowhere to go. And I think sometimes , that fear of perfection, we often talk about it now in our firm. It's the 80, 20, right? We're never going [00:05:00] to get that full a hundred percent.
If we get 80 percent of the way there, we're going to call it a win. And nine times out of 10, it really is. Is, and you can spend your whole life perseverating on that remaining 20%. I got to do this, this, this, to get my business going and never get to the a hundred percent and never get your business going.
And that you just got to jump in. I hate to say it. The best way to learn to swim is just jump off
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): babe, that's in fact, , like, as we've gone through this whole evolution and then revolution of the podcast,
. A lot of it of what I've just really been saying is like done is better than perfect because then you can get it done, learn from that, and then you can go back and say, okay, this worked, this didn't work.
I'm going to keep doing this. I'm going to stop doing that.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): everybody has to have their first, everything like you. Can you imagine what Monet's first piece look like? I bet it was in shambles. No one ever talks about what Monet's piece of art looked like. Now we go to the Guggenheim and we sit there and we go, Oh my gosh, a Monet. But like back in the day, Monet, as the kid probably used crayons.[00:06:00]
I mean, you have to realize that like, you just have to get started. I love that you're, you were courageous enough. This is so Michelle. Courageous enough to get out there and say, I'm going to try this format. We're going to reinvent it. I like this better and keep massaging until you get it where you want
it
to be.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): perfection is perception. right? Yeah. No charge. You
can
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): that. Yeah. True. Because look what looks perfect to one person to another. They're going to be like, you gotta be kidding me. Like I saw a piece of art, like got the other day that this guy sells millions of dollars in art. And I was just, again, I'm like, it was pigs dressed up in camo and ammunition set back in a Baroque Somebody loves it because he's selling a truckload of them. It's in a beautiful art magazine, but to me there, I was just like, huh? What? Yeah.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): think And I that is also a lesson for designers as I've grown my team and I've had my team and I've coached them a lot of times when they're searching for that absolute perfect [00:07:00] piece de resistance
in the room and it's 18 hours to find a freaking table lamp. Here's the deal. That perfect lamp that you believe is.
The ideal find, that's the one thing the client's going to change in the room. And you just spent 18 hours of completely Yes,
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I think it's interesting. What we tend to dwell on is often not what our clients do, which is, I mean, that's like knowing the needs the wants of your client, um, which I think is so important, but like. A lot of times they're not going to look at that. They're looking at the holistic package.
There might be one or two pieces they fall madly in love with. And to your point, it'll probably be the pieces you're like, really? I just thought I was kind of throwing that round out the design.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Exactly. Just nod your head and smile. Absolutely. I was just talking to Zoe, one of my newer members. And we're really training her to say, okay, this is what we have to do to stay profitable. This is a business. [00:08:00] So here's the parameters you need to work within. And I was just talking to her the other day, I was like, how are the, how does it feel?
And she's like, sometimes it's really hard because I could look for hours and hours and hours. And she said, sometimes I just, I have to slow down. I have to cognizantly stop and say, this one is pretty damn good.
And I was really
proud of
that
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): That says a lot about how you're developing your team. I think our job as business owners. So much of it is not just getting those billable hours and being a profitable business, but that all happens when you educate your people on your team and you invest in them and you say, Hey, there's a difference between billable and non billable hours on your pay stub.
Like we need to talk about that. Like, what are we doing over here? Or we need to allocate time appropriately. Like, what does that look like to sit down and have that conversations? That's come up in design school, I mean, it's like
we're regardless
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Without a
budget.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): [00:09:00] Right. Without a budget. I mean, that's the best part about school. Right. But coming into it now, I think that's where there's so many designers that get out of formal education and come in and it's a lot like doctors where it's like, yeah, I can figure out how to make you well and how to fix this problem and how to do all these things.
But wait, what do you mean? I have to document all this. And then there's got to bill all this. And then I've got to do a P and L sheet at year end. And then there's taxes and nobody ever sat and explained that. And I'm like, that's the most critical part, but you're not going to have
anything
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): talk like figuring out your structure, finding a great CPA. What would you say if, as you're what do you look
for?
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Yeah. And this comes back to a little bit of the it, of like, I don't want this to impede our viewers and our listeners in any way, right? Just remember, this is coming from the lady who started it out with cardboard box and five Okay. decks But ideally, um, one thing I like, and it's a old expression from Harvey McKay.
Who's a wonderful [00:10:00] business author. Um, he, he came up with the book, dig your well before you're thirsty about networking. Um, but I like to extrapolate that when it comes to choosing your attorney and your CPA. Do it before you need one, go out there and do the interviews and figure out who do you want your intellectual property attorney?
Cause you're one at some point. And when someone has hijacked your design and put it all over Instagram, when someone has, you need to know who you need to call, or you have a client, they don't want to pay their bill. What is your contract show? Have you had anyone review your contract? Like, is it something we off legal zoom or is this something that's actually designed for intellectual property?
Take the time to interview and find your intellectual property attorney who understands your state too, you
need one. Same with your CPA. Yeah. I think those two, and it's funny because like you'll talk to legal and legal say, we'll talk to the CPA, right? You talk to the CPA, the CPA will talk to legal.
There's a reason why. You really need both. You really [00:11:00] need both. And you will find out the first time you get your letter from the IRS. About something you missed, how desperately you wish you would have had that CPA tucked away in your back pocket that you're like now ready to give your book of business over to because this is
more
than
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): also kind of like dating when you're lonely. It's amazing the shit you
settle for.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): love I
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): I didn't get
married till I was 37. lot of examples of really bad
choices.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I was 31, so we're in the same boat. Oh my gosh.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): like you don't want to be desperate for a CPA or desperate for an attorney. So that's great advice. I wish somebody would have shared that with me like back in the
day.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): me
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Yeah.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): meet you. I wish I could go back and talk to my cardboard box self about that. Um, and then the person who's available when you need them, is that really the person that you Like, especially now, cause the labor pool is so tight, right? Especially in professional [00:12:00] industries. And like, you want to have that relationship
before
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): So What would you tell your 20 year old self? Um, from a professional standpoint, what advice would you
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Calm down. Breathe and sit in the seat of your intuition for the love. Don't try to rationalize the way why you should or shouldn't do something. What the books say to do, what other people say to do, just sit there for one hot minute and say, what do I feel called to do? What gives me peace and joy and happiness and jives with fundamentally
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): That's great advice at any
Yeah. We could end the podcast with that. Like boom, drop the mic.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): once you agree, I think it's so hard, especially as women, because I've been told to override that for so many decades, centuries, millennia. And so to sit back and just say, I'm going to sit with this and not only am I going to sit with it and let it just be what it's going to be, I'm going to do it [00:13:00] confidently and walk in that space confidently and saying, this
is what I meant to is what I'm supposed to do. Yeah. And not, not flippantly, but kind of unapologetically where I don't have to explain it,
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Well, and you know, interesting you say that, especially as women, because when we are confident and, you know, I don't want to say, like you said, not flippant, not cocky, But as women, we don't own that the same way. Like men strut into a room thinking they're badass when they're just like,
whatever. We walk in meekly, even when we are
like the glory in the
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Totally Yeah. There's this interesting thing that I think is programmed into women, that it is somehow a sign of femininity less than like, Oh, she's so soft and sweet and gentle. Don't worry. I've never been called these things, but like somehow, but I fought that for a really long time that like, I have to be the quiet one in the room.
Right. Or I have to be, um, I can't be that [00:14:00] opinionated because it comes
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): So I love to
laugh that it's like, supposed to be fragile, like a flower. Babe, I'm fragile, like a bomb. fragile Right. let's Be but just be realistic about the type of
fragility that we are.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Well it's so true and it doesn't mean that you have to be mean, but it means you can walk in there like a man. It is okay. And I'm finally coming to grips with this at the bold age of 44. It is okay to walk into a room and own the room and there is nothing wrong with that. And not only do you have the right to do that, it is a privilege to be able to do that.
And when you are comfortable enough, we've talked about this as friends, but just like being who you are. And just saying, this is who I am. And if you don't like it, that is okay. I am not everybody's cup of tea. I don't want to be everybody's cup of tea, but if I'm
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Absolutely. And I think that that, that goes back to building a business.
Put on your big girl panties. This is a
big girl [00:15:00] business.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): is a big girl business. there's so much that happens with those internal those external stakeholders. There's hard conversations like teaching the newest member of your team about billable hours. And this is where the buck has to stop literally and figuratively, we're not going to be Um, You know, taking and firing the client that
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): we're doing
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): just
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): that this week. but it goes back to your communications
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): I think communication is king or queen,
technically in this instance,
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Polish that tiara, another diamond on it because it's true. It, it, I think that is the one thing I see missing in business over and over and over again. You can be a doing a phenomenal job, but if you were not communicating with those internal and external stakeholders. It doesn't matter. It's the whole thing of telling what you're going to tell them, tell them, then tell them what you told them.
Because no one in the history of communication has ever said, Oh my gosh, I was [00:16:00] so communicated with. Have you ever heard anybody say that? Like at your kid's school? Are you ever like, I'm just getting too much communication. Like this is just too much. My complaint is I was like, you me hours.
Like. I'm a professional. I can't get my calendar together that fast. Right? Like the value of communicating, not just, and it's both the good and the bad,
Not
right just the
good,
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): it's setting expectations
communicating because if you're not your, the expectations that should be set, your client is going to go off the rails. Your project will go off the Your
mind will go off the
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Yes. Yes. All of that, which goes back to being a process driven firm. Did I have processes with a cardboard No, sure was box I didn't. It
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): But hey, you were organized with a cardboard box. wasn't like you were just holding all five fan and dropping
two of them.
So
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): box. Yeah. Yeah. Baby steps. But yeah, to have that process and grow into that space where if you are sitting and listening to this and you're [00:17:00] like, my gosh, I don't have my processes in order. It's like, I think that's something you speak to all the time too, is like, you got to have processes, but don't just have the processes explained to the client, the processes.
So they understand how you're going to get to the destination. I think that's one thing that's really hard in our industry is we have this whole expectation. It's really artsy and and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. It really has a formula. Um, that's why I love it. There's a right and left side to it, but have your processes and then explain to your client how you're going to walk them to their
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): what
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): destination
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): that you've done to grow
business to multi bazillion
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): You're I like bazillion better than million a lot sweet that Michelle.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): It's we
and play recorded so
can go back
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): it's perfect, but yeah, it's processes. The one thing about processes that I absolutely 100 percent love is they work when you aren't. And no one understands that.
Processes don't take time off. They don't need sick leave. [00:18:00] They don't need maternity leave. They don't need personal time off. Processes are structures and things you don't have to recreate that you don't
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): to.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): work you do not, yeah, if you don't have the processes working for you. Then you're constantly fighting.
It's like rolling a rock, a pill. Every time you do a project, you're reinventing the wheel and we're pushing and driving the project instead of it being a workflow. It's a work push and it's just, it's not worth It's not sustainable. You can't run 40 to 80 projects coast to coast. Like we do without it.
We would be flat on
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Absolutely. And how do you work in, um, like, like, so you're telling the client, this is what we're going to do. This is what we're going to do. How do you extract from the client, like their wants and needs , and details there? Is that part of your process? Like, I love, I'm assuming it is, but kind of how does that work?
Like, in my opinion, it's like we, we [00:19:00] educate, we educate, we educate, and then we have to extricate. Is that the word? Educate, then if I don't know. something Yeah. I don't know that's like a tooth or tooth out. do Extract, extricate. how you,
walk through that?
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): It's a great, it's such a good question because I think a lot of times clients come they have a Pinterest board. And it is a drop dead gorgeous Pinterest board. It could be a complete dumpster fire and you're like,
all over the map. doing, yeah, you're doing me cause we're boho chic one minute and we're contemporary the next.
And then we've got a little modern in there for fun. And then was that farmhouse I just saw? Yeah. And so you're like job security, I'm going to be great here. Um, but they're coming to you with all of these wishful thoughts, right? And wishful thoughts are great. Clients need a starting place, but I feel like our job is to tease out just as much of what they think they want versus what they really want and they need.
Clients don't know what they need. Like. It's great. You want a bar in your kitchen and that you love this one on Pinterest. You realize it [00:20:00] seats, two people, right? Like, do you realize you have two kids and you also have a spouse? So you may actually want to sit around this bar and this may be where you live most of your life.
And you actually four seats at that bar. And that's going to take a chunk out of this space over here, but I think you're going to get more value add. Cause this is going to be actual livable space at that bar for homework and snacks and dinner. And in walking them through that, it's a truckload of listening, as you know. Cause they kind of have to kind of like from that old movie, um, or her, the Greek, big wedding, where she goes, he is the head, but I am the neck I term determined which the head looks. Right. I feel like how it is with clients. They ha has to be their idea, but then we can come in as the neck and kind of turn it and massage it
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): are
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): and
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): think that's why most designers women because that's what we do with our husbands.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I think my husband would agree, but he's more in the camp of stop doing that after work, please. you leave But yeah, I think needs and wants are equally as important. Clients have a lot of desires, [00:21:00] but that's where form and function come in. Form is all those wants. Function is all the needs. They don't even know that they have and that have them loving us three months after we're done with the job, a year after we're done with the job.
So when they pick up the lake house or they buy the cabin, they call us back because we're going to see things that they didn't see beyond
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): a think that's great way to describe it too, because, um, it's like, I want to eat cake for breakfast,
into but I also want to fit my pants. So I need somebody to tell me that's not a good
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Yeah,
Back our intermittent fasting.
to when finally
starving
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): it's That's why I
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): noon you are
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): hilarious
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): gosh,
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Oh that's
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): it's so
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): What would you say has been. One of your biggest struggles from getting to, you know, the jobby job job to like an actual badass, [00:22:00] profitable
design firm.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Yeah. , it's a really lovely problem to have for the longest time. We only did exterior design and that was intentional. , like you, I got married later in life. I was 31. I still wanted to have kids hopefully. and I'd waited so long. I didn't know if I was going to get married. I don't know if I was going to have kids.
And so when I got the opportunity, I was like, Oh, I'm going to savor every morsel of this because I didn't even know if was going to happen.
And so for a long time, I had clients coming to me being like, please do interiors, please do interiors. And I was like, not right now. My most important clients, as you referenced, like routine me, I'm in the middle of like pampers, like, trust me, you don't want me to do your interior
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): my interior is all mixed up, you
know?
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Let's just start with the hormones or lock there up. Yes. And so it became something where finally our largest client came to us and said, we really are begging you. And my youngest was one year out from being in full time school. And I said, [00:23:00] okay, but here's the deal. You have to understand we're going to taper this year.
That was the year we grew 1500%. And I, when I sent my youngest off to kinder, I was like full or full time it was first grade because she did half day K. So when we got into first grade, I was like, everyone's like, aren't you so excited? Your youngest is in , full time. I'm like. Oh, I don't know. Did that happen?
That's amazing. But it just got swallowed by work. And so was the speed at which we grew. And I would sit here a complete liar and a hypocrite if I didn't tell you we have the absolute best people on our team
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Cause absolute best I don't know. I've got the
on my team.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): We're going to have a team off reality design show. This would so much fun.
Yeah. Right. Like it's our people that make us and they gave us the processes and our IT guy gave us the softwares plural that we needed to be able to do it. And the attorney gave us [00:24:00] the contracts we needed and fine tune them. And it's not me. It's never. It never is, never has been, and I hope never will be just me.
If you're feeling like it's all you, then we need to press pause and stop and reassess this whole situation. Because you can't
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): interesting know, what's is I was, um, it's been a year, right? It's been a hot mess of a year.
Um, and I was literally thinking that one of the lessons that I think is really important for any entrepreneur, especially creatives, is to learn to not breathe your own
fumes,
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): No. That is so well put. that
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): that
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Flesh
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): I think not breathing your own fumes is just like, you can't get so high on yourself.
That you are literally just out there
thinking that your shit doesn't stink.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Oh, I love that. You get up and put on your pants
a time
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): I
you
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): one [00:25:00] leg at
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): And can tell you that, know, when I've gotten too big for my britches, I can see where, you know, there's a bit of a roadblock put up. And you have to learn that lesson before you can move past it.
start do not breathe your own fumes. When you feeling high on yourself, you need to bring
yourself back down.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): and realize, I think that's the greatest thing to, we've talked about getting older and how much fun it is. I actually love getting older, but realizing your sphere of and what you can really control in life. And then doing that, there's so much energy we spend trying to control and do things well beyond us that we really have no control or influence over.
But when you can sit in your space again and say, I can control this. Yeah. Am I breathing my own fumes or is there something better I can be
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Yeah, absolutely. Or, you know, at the end of the day, you know, um, you can be replaced. My, my dad used to tell me this, um, not as a daughter, but as an employee, when I first started going to work, he would say, [00:26:00] you can be replaced by a white button.
Right to So just clarify, not I couldn't be replaced as a daughter by a white button, but from as an remember that it's a business.
And that at the end the day, we're all replaceable.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): So even as the
owner of the
business.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): yeah, and I want to
be
replaceable
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): on the beach in
Fiji.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I have this dream and my kids were really little and it would be middle of the night and it was like, yeah, like 2am and they're screaming and I'm trying to get them to stop. And in my head, I just have this like place in Tahiti in my heart and in my mind where I'm just laying flat on my back and perfectly blue water with over the water just floating and no one needs me.
And like. That is like the safest, most wonderful place that I exist in. And it is so nice to not feel like I'm carrying all of this because at some point either want to sell this business or have my [00:27:00] daughters take it over and run it and let them grow into it. But it can't all be.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): a
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I think it's a
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): But that's true CEO,
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Yeah.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): In that regards, a true
does not need to be so net deep in the operations that the business can't
function without her.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): [00:28:00] You know, it's so true. , someone I spoke with probably a couple of years ago, once she said to me, it was such good advice. She said, the greatest challenge you can give yourself is to build a team and build systems. So you could walk out the door for two weeks[00:29:00]
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Screw Oh girl, I'm saying a month.
month or weeks. Let's go
for a
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I love that. Let's take it up a notch because at the time it was right as we were growing so fast. And I was like, I know I need I need all this. processes I know if I ever get there, it's going to be a miracle. And we're there, like I can leave or we can, to your point, close the office and go away for a week and the world will not fall apart.
And that. Not only is it just about growing a business, it's about growing a business that fits your lifestyle. If you feel that this is all on you, it is unsustainable. You will crumble because you are human. You are 70 percent water, like you will apart at some point and it will not look very good and you will not be there for your
people,
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): ego. If you feel like you have to be there, it's ego. And it's not like, you know, ego seems to have such a [00:30:00] negative connotation, but it's just a natural part of our personalities.
So when I say ego, I'm not saying you're an egotistical B I T C H. I'm just saying it's the ego in our mind that says that we can't be, we can't not be there.
Are you a helicopter mom? That's ego. Are you a helicopter employer? That's ego. Like, are you a control freak? That's ego. So in those, in those respects. As, as a business owner, it,
like you said, it's not sustainable.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): It's not sustainable. And it really, as you're saying, that reminds me of how important it is and how much it comes communication. One thing we've done on our team. I know you're probably the exact same. Cause you run a
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Let's see. I want to hear what you have to say. Cause like half of the, okay. So disclaimer, half of the reason why I love having the interviews is for selfish reasons that I get to learn and meet new, new cool
people.
So, so
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): That's exactly who
So spill the tea is give your people permission to make mistakes. And I have not even shared this with my team, but I have about a dollar figure in my head. If we [00:31:00] have a mistake up to about a thousand dollars, we're going to figure it out because I'm more interested in my teammates sticking up their hand and saying, I made a mistake and us getting a chance to fix it for the client.
So there's not even an impact for them or a financial impact, which we've been able to avoid a bunch of them because we have a culture. Of it being okay to communicate that something went off the rails or one of the, I love one of the women on our team. She's so self deprecating and she's like, I totally screwed this up.
And literally that was her update in our project management software. And I was like, I love that because then we can't fix what we don't know in life. And that's true of everything. Right. So giving the permission. To say you are human, you're going to make mistakes, communicate those mistakes. And then let's dig you out as a team.
How do we dig you out this? How do we get the client where they need to be? And there's just, there's just such a fear of that. I think, especially for women, I have to do everything perfectly. your initial statement. I have to [00:32:00] do everything perfectly all the time.
that's
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Because we dance
backwards
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Love that. Yes. Bad words
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): that though
I love It's so true though. It's, and yes, you're right. That's exactly how we run our business as well. It's like it's a safe place fail. And you know why? Because this is not the emergency room. Nobody's gonna die on an
operating table.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): just so glad we don't do cardiac surgery or like open
I'm
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): absolutely. I'd have to be a
lot
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): happy
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Yeah.
good.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): blood.
It is. Well, and, and to, when someone feels, I think we, the flip side of that is not only does that person feel seen, safe, and heard, like
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Mm hmm. That's
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): need
Seen, safe,
and
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): safe,
and heard.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): when you've seen, safe, and heard, guess what? You're going to create some amazing things that you can design.
Or you can de sign. When I feel see and safe and heard, I can [00:33:00] de sign. Like, I can think and create, and my synapses are firing, and I can put on my music, and I can get in that headspace. But if I'm like, this is going to make a mistake, I'm never going to get anywhere, and I could get fired, and... You can't
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): you Well, and what do create is going to be kind of
boring.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): lackluster, or just downright sad and stressful. Right? I mean, we talk about that non ontological so
but that the design? much design. Oh, I love this. love I like, it design Oh, I know. It's so fancy. It's multi syllabic. Yes. No. So everyone about biophilic design, right?
And that's great that we bring in, yes, biophilic design has its place. What's different about ontological design is that it's not just like we're designing these spaces. It's that the spaces are designing us back. Do you ever walk into a place and you go. Oh my gosh, this feels [00:34:00] so wrong and I don't know why, but I don't like it.
And your shoulders start to do this and your blood starts to go up spaces. Yeah,
So they're designing you back in that space. I love your eye tick. That's awesome. Oh, that's great. But then in that space, can you design. Palm serenity out of that? No, whatever you say, how you dress the words that come out of your mouth when you're in that place.
Are going to be very different and what you create in that environment than if you're in a place that feels good to you. So it's, you're designing the space, but the space is designing
you
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): is exactly what we do for our clients, which is why they can begin and end their day in a refuge that has them being their best self
ontological.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Yes.
It is a completely ontological use the term, be the subject matter expert to your clients and explain that to them. Because I think there's so many people[00:35:00] you look factory workers for instance. They're sitting in white, white surroundings, they've got a concrete floor and the
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): that. Those fluorescents can
kill a person.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): we were not designed to sit under fluorescent lighting ever. And then they leave at the end of the day and they, this has actually been statistically done and scientifically done. They'll measure their blood pressure levels. They'll look at the cortisol levels or look, it's, it's the equivalent of a jet fighter, like a pilot You realize that these places are impacting us, whether you want to be impacted or not, you can't escape it. So how do we create a space? That really does to use your word is a refuge for the client. And so when you can say to them, it's not just about having what's on Pinterest. This is about how it makes you feel because how that happens is going to affect all of your outputs, creative and otherwise, while you're in that space and even
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): That's fabulous. I'm going
to go down that bunny trail.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): a deep bunny trail, [00:36:00] but I think it's so valuable. And I think if we started looking, it would add so much credibility to our industry. It's not just about making things prettier or, you know, the condescension of, Oh, do you
pick throw No, pillows right. No, we can't be you that way. Like, I'm so
If that come at me
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): pillows or chop on those
Super important.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Karate shop
No,
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): no.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): lived in.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): We can still be friends.
We can still be friends.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): give me your wine though. I want to know your wine. Cause
you
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): karate
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): may
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): like chop
is contrived.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Oh, interesting. my kids have
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): like if you,
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I feel like been
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): See, if just the pillow on the, on the couch, it just lands.
There's no karate
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I guess that's true. Well, karate chop might be too strong of a word. Yeah. I don't need to like whack it, but it needs to
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): V.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): look like it's
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Well, just, [00:37:00] see my pillows old enough that they look a little bit like they were meant to do. So funny
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I could still
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): what's a karate chop in my house versus our clients, and I think sometimes we don't do the deep V karate chop, but we do probably push down, so it's of like a little bit of a capital U.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): a little divot.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): enough. Yeah.
because
Yeah.
like, my house is just like, I throw pillows there, but yeah. My
house, it's like the cobbler's kids anyway.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): don't have shoes. It's the same thing over here. Don't worry. Sometimes I'm just like, you would never hire me as a designer. If you saw my house after my kids have been here, like over the weekend doing all the things I'm like, We're just heavily in and loved.
Yeah. We'll rectify this later, but this does Don't you worry. We look like
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Our
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): home
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): I totally appreciate that. So here's a question for you.
Um, what do you want to spend more time doing?
Yeah. So like as a business owner, as a [00:38:00] designer,
as a mom and all the things, what is, what is something you want to do more of? And it could be in or out of your
business.
This is just an open ended question.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Ooh, I wanna, both? Can I do in and out of,
can I Do um, out of my business? I wanna spend more time doing yoga. I taught a bunch of yoga, um, before I had kids and through my pregnancies. And I miss it. And in the midst of doing kids and doing life, um, it has fallen by the wayside
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Do
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): realized that
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): you want to do more
yoga or
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I want to do more yoga, but that leads me perfectly the inside of the business and that's where I want to do more coaching, not because I want to coach to coach, but to much like you, you get to this stage in your career. I would have killed to have somebody who is where we are come alongside me.
When I was 25, 30, figuring it out when I was X number of figures into my business and be kind and [00:39:00] curious and come alongside and build with me. Um, and that one of the things that fell by the wayside as our business grew is I taught undergraduate and graduate courses at a university level for
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): 12 must have started when you were
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): It was funny. I did. I did start young, but it was my first class. The university instructor was so sweet. He goes. Well, I can't put you in the normal classes because you're their same age. So I'm going to give you the advanced high schoolers. And I said, I'll just take whoever I think this'll be fun. And it was so sweet.
So I was like, I don't know, four years older than the advanced high schoolers. And we just went with that and it was great. But yeah, I really miss teaching because I feel like, like you, there's things we have learned the hard way and I would have loved to have somebody come along and help me with that.
And so now I'm at a period
it's
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): And that's what you, so
you do have a coaching
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I do have a coaching program.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Who are your who
[00:40:00] ideal, are your ideal
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): it Yeah. Great question. Is anyone growing, looking to grow their business, but we don't take it just in growing your business. It's growing your business to your life. I feel like so much of the coaching world, not in our industry per se, um, but in other industries, it's all about scale.
Let's just
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): that's
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): as a woman.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): in our
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): But
Yeah. Okay.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): it the fact that you're
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I'm
Yeah.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): is important.
other But if you look a lot of coaches, a lot of coaches and myself included to a certain extent, it's more along the lines of grow your business from here to here. But it is also important that you're trading your time for money, that you can still be a better mom, wife, friend,
daughter, all the things.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Yeah. Because that gets back into the sustainability. Like it's great to scale, but there's also seasons in your business. So there might times to contract. You have a kid that has special needs. This might be a contraction time for you. And that is okay. Or bring on somebody let's find somebody ultra competent who continue to fill [00:41:00] your shoes.
Um, but it's really just scaling it to the lifestyle you want it to be and being honest enough to sit in the space again, back with our intuition of what do you really think this should be and what should be in it. Because so much of us, all of life, a lot of times, especially as women projected at us.
You should be a mom. You should be a business You should be
able
to run a
marathon.
owner
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): backwards.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Like, honestly, at some point we have to just sit back and sit in the seat of our intuition. And then how do we scaffold out of that strategically to get you where you want to be?
You want a multi billion dollar business show you. We can get there. If you want to sit though, and you want to contract for a period and you want to say, how do I contract without losing my business? So I can come back to this in five years my kids are in school full time. You built a great business.
Now you have kids and you want to stop for a minute and breathe. Uh, how do we do that? I don't think that there's a lot of coaches that want to have that conversation [00:42:00] necessarily. It's all just the hype of growth and profits and, and, and, but you can't. You can't buy it when you can buy back your time, but your time is your most valuable asset, right?
And we all get 24 hours in a day. So how are we going to use it? And so my ideal clients, it's not so much about how much money you're making. We can run the gambit. It's where you want to be and how we get your business to job with who you are and where you want that business to serve you. If you you're serving your business, we to have that conversation.
Cause that's
then need
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): do.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): not
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): hmm. So you serve businesses who are like brand new and starting up? Do you serve businesses who want to scale into the million or multimillion dollar? Is there a
sweet spot for the people who
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): do Yeah. We love to take the five and six figure businesses or the startups and move them into the seven figures or into the fives and sixes. That really is where the, I would say low sixes is where that, that's where we're going to max out with you, honestly. And we have other coaches we can [00:43:00] refer you to because.
That's I, we love helping other women. Like this is a great place where we push and promote other women. Um, but that's what I love. You can be calling and saying, I am starting. I am the cardboard box. I am starting with a cardboard box. I've been at a big firm. I want to hang out my own shingle. What do I do?
And we're here to walk you through that journey. We have a
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Yes. And I love that. And, and that just goes back to, because technically you're my direct competition, right? From the interior design business bakery.
But here's Y'all is It's community over competition. There's enough ugly houses for every designer and there's enough designers who need a, you know, a hand that the different programs, you have to find what fits for you.
It's just like our clients, they have
to find what fits for them.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Absolutely. And like, it's not just about the content, like some of Michelle's content, like your content may really resonate with some people. Some of my content and approach may resonate [00:44:00] or
personalities or with others right. I mean, that's the thing. If you're like, I just want a lot of feelings and I want to have these deep feeling talks, I'm probably not your coach.
And I'll be really honest about that. If you're like, okay, I'm getting in a world, I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm totally going to own that. And I don't, I need to know exactly what I need do and I'm ready to March. Let's get marching. I'm your person. Right. And so it, yeah, I mean, that's what's so lovely.
And I think that's the beauty of being in the age range. We'll put bracket the, you and I are, it's like, yeah, technically we're competitors, but, but we're not. Cause we're different
doing the
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): And
absolutely. I love that. And I love the fact that there's no weirdness. And so I really want to just share that with the audience is that if you're a designer and you meet another designer in your town or your city, hug her
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Please
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): there's nobody
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): hug her She's
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): else who understands the shizzle that we deal with. [00:45:00] Then another designer. I love Jesus, but I swear a little bit, but know, now with
daughter, I don't swear as much, um,
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): we call it after eight o'clock talk, cause that's
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): you go
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): when So we have a lot of after talk the feelings and words. eight o'clock about all
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): So, yes, I think that is just
so important for all of us to remember.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): and I think too, there's really been a stigma in our industry for a really long time of snooty designers, snooty designers. And it's like, why? And did we do that to ourselves? Well, however, we got here, we got to dig our way out of it. Don't be the snooty designer. There's very few clients, at least in my part of the country that are looking for a snooty designer.
And I bet in yours too, they want to feel seen safe and heard just like our our They want to know and not judged, you know, for that random piece that they bring you that you're like, Oh boy, that's going to be fun to
And there's
Right. want to [00:46:00] feel seen, safe and heard about that and like, not feel like you have all the answers.
And there's a difference between I have all the answers and I'm a subject matter expert. And it just comes back to the approach again. , do you come with the heart of sincerity and curiosity and kindness? Or are you coming in to say, well, this is how your job should look because I want to be on the next cover of Architectural
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Nope. I think that's, that's key. Listen. hmm. Mm
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): It's so hard to do sometimes, especially when I think it's easy to, I don't know if you feel this way, but after doing it for 20 years, it's easy to walk into a situation and be like, Oh, I know how this is going to go. Like I have a pretty good read on this. We've done this a few hundred thousands.
I don't even know times. And so I feel like I have a pretty good idea. And like, that's me more toggling back, back to your point about ego and saying, no, Katie, you haven't met this person. Once again, take a deep breath, going, sit in for space for just a minute, hear their heart and realize that they're unique and that they just want to be seen safe and heard like everybody else.
And then design [00:47:00] that
space.
from
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): I was about to ask you if there's any piece of wisdom or advice that you'd want to leave with our listeners, but I think that was pretty damn
good.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): can call it a wrap right there. Yeah. I think what's so neat, and I'm sure your audience hears it coming through you guys, I mean, I know they hear it from you every single week, but both of us have a really beautiful passion for what we do in helping other people. And I think that is the most important thing.
Find those people. That are going to be your yay people that are going to be your hype people and run with them, run feverishly with them. And don't stop once you know that you've sat in the space and you know what you're meant to
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): that
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): do
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): I love that. So how can the listeners connect with you?
Where's the best Erikson
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): some at end the quarter. Yeah, that's honest. Let's honest. Um, no, you can head on over to our [00:48:00] website. It's colorworks, just like it sounds dot coach. And there's a bunch of ways you can book a discovery call. If you're like, I think Katie's it, but I'm not sure we have a complimentary discovery call.
I'd love to sit with you for a few minutes. Um, if you're like, Nope, that's it. We got to do this. I need help that you can book a call right there for an hour of my time. And we'll just and through all the things, um, you want to until we get
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): you.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): You can call me any time, Michelle.
love,
I
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Talk me off the ledge,
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Talk me off the ledge!
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Oh only if I call you for the exact same reason, because any business owner that thinks it's a cakewalk, this may sound like we have it together, but there are days I assure you I wake up and I feel like I'm back to my cardboard boxes and five fan decks. And anyone who says otherwise, it's lies.
You know, that's just part of the beauty. It's part of the nature, I
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): And also, find somebody who's willing to admit that. Because if they say it's rainbows
and unicorns every freaking day...
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): They They lie. They're liars. [00:49:00] I mean, no, most of the time, I mean, truthfully, if I could put my accurate title on my business card, it would be firefighter because as business owners, we have people doing all the things that we're going around putting out all the fires and removing the speed bumps and talking
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): you can be ringleader firefighter.
I'm gonna be That's my
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): ring leader. Yeah. Cause it is, it's a three ring circus. There's an act going on in every
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): true.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Yeah. Oh, Michelle.
privilege this, Thank you Thank you for the being a
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): forward to connecting with you again, and we'll figure out how we can collaborate as well I'm thinking of all sorts of fun
coaching ideas
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): I'm here for every single part of it because I think women need other women. Designers need other designers. We are better together than apart. And I think as an industry, we just
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Agreed. Agreed. I like there's a, there's a meme that's been going around lately on Instagram that says, be the woman who fixes another woman's crown without pointing out to the [00:50:00] world that it was crooked or something like that. Yeah. It sounds much better on
Instagram, but I
think that
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): it's so true. And what you don't realize as well, you're like busy pointing out to the rest of the world that some woman's
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): you have
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): So
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Oh yeah. And a
booger in your
nose
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Just show up, show up for your people, show up for other people. And it will come full circle right back It'll Yeah. to you.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): com
and
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): coach
Colorworks for coaching.
Yep. Colorworks.
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): to cool. Cause I went colorworks. com and I think I saw your coach. You
can still get to the coaching from there.
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Yeah. So it's colorworks. design our firm side. Yeah. I think. com is owned by M& Ms or
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): to and Yeah. Cause I went your website found it. I'll make sure this is all in
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): No, you're fine. Yeah.
It's colorworks. design for the firm side, colorworks. coach for the
Episode 122 (Michelle Lynne): Fabulous. Cool. Cool. Cool. [00:51:00] I'll make sure they're listed in the show notes
and y'all, if you want to business bestie. Sending you business tips, encouraging words, event updates, and so forth directly to your fingertips. Text BESTIE to 855 784 8299 and get on our text messaging. No spam. You'll hear from me on the regular.
Again, that's 855 784 8299 and peeps choose to be great today and every day. Thanks for being here. We'll catch you next time. Thank you,
Episode 122 (Katie Decker-Erickson): Thank you,
Michelle. It was a privilege.[00:52:00]
