Transcript
Michelle Lynne: Welcome to Designed for the Creative Mind, a podcast for interior designers and creative entrepreneurs to run their business with purpose, efficiency, and passion. Because, while every design is different, the process should remain the same. Prepare yourself for some good conversations with amazing guests, a dash of Jesus and a touch of the woowoo, and probably a swear word or two. If you're ready to stop trading your time for money and enjoy your interior design business, you are in the right place. I'm your host, Michelle Lynne.
Michelle Lynne: Hello, hello, hello, hello, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast, Designed for the Creative Mind. This is a business podcast for interior designers and creatives, which is perfect because today I'm excited to announce that I have Nancy Ganzekaufer, I probably should have asked if I was pronouncing your name right, Nancy before I introduced you. But Nancy specializes in coaching interior designers and service-based entrepreneurs. She can teach you to maximize your profitability and identify and serve your ideal clients with confidence. In effect, Nancy becomes your business partner. She helps you develop the most straightforward path to higher scalability, visibility, and profitability through confident decision making, efficient systems, development, and effective communication. So she is like the whole bucket of wonderful. And in addition to all of this, she's also the founding president of the Interior Design Society virtual chapter. She's an executive IDS board member at large. And she was the first recipient of the IDS Outstanding Leadership Award for her 12 years of active participation in national leadership and her local chapter in Long Island, New York. So can we welcome Nancy Ganzekaufer, if I pronounced your name right. Did I pronounce your last name right?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: You did. Ganzekaufer. It's very phonetic, but it's very scary because it's long.
Michelle Lynne: I'm so excited to have you here, oh, my gosh. Yes, it is absolutely, my honor. And I'm going to apologize in advance if I do some silly fangirling. Because your reputation precedes you, Nancy. You have been such a huge impact in the interior design industry for over a decade. Right?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yeah. Thank you so much, Michelle. You just gave me goosebumps, because it's truly been my last 25 years, being in this industry. And this is not something I ever expected. This really is something that evolved slowly over time, like for so many people, but I was a businesswoman. I worked in a bank. I was a first vice president. I never even could design anything in my own house. Right? It was like kinda like I'm all business, what can I sell? And I became an art consultant and was one for 17 years because my mom was an artist.
Michelle Lynne: Ohhh.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: So she called me one day after my third son, when my third child was born, my son had to have open heart surgery and he was quarantined for two years.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, God bless that little babe. And you. That has to be heartbreaking as a mom.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: It was really difficult at that time. Third child, I had a four-year-old, a two-year-old, and a baby that was quarantined and was in and out of the hospital with pneumonia. And I couldn't work at that point. Like I had to be full-time, stay at home. And then when he turned two and he was no longer quarantined, and by the way, he's 22 today in his final year of college.
Michelle Lynne: Amazing.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: So like, all is well, I like to say that quickly so people don't go, oh my god, what happened? You know, thankfully, he's an amazing kid along with my other two. But my mother called me at one point when I was like, hmm, what do I do next in my life, right? I was in the corporate world. I loved it. I could go back. But well, I got a taste of being at home. And my kids need me. What do I do now? So my mother calls and says, I'm giving away all my artwork. This is ridiculous. I'm piling it up. I'm like, well, send it to me. Like, let me let me see what I can do with it because she was really a very talented watercolor artist. She must have sent me 200 pieces, Michelle.
Michelle Lynne: Oh my gosh. So she was stockpiling it.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Oh, yeah. Prolific. And she was running the art club in her community in Las Vegas, where my parents had moved. So I now have 200 pieces of artwork and I'm like, what do I do? So I started having home art parties, and home art parties were not making me any money, but it was fun.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, there's wine.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: And cheese.
Michelle Lynne: Yes.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Right? So wine and cheese and sticky talking our work to people's walls, friends and family, and asking them to invite their friends and family.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, wow.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: And it really, again, I'd work like 60 to 80 hours a week putting a party together. Anyone who's ever done Pampered Chef knows what it's like.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, back in the day. I could completely remember those.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yeah. And I hated those by the way, I never went to those home art parties. I was not even one of those people, yet. Suddenly, I was having them. So working my butt off, doing little cafes, doing street fairs, during home art parties, making nothing, giving my mother a little new lease on life when she was in her 50s, which is now where I am, I can't even believe it. And one day, an interior designer walked into a party. And that changed my entire path.
Michelle Lynne: Really?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yeah. And I still remember the designer, and I still see her once in a while. And I thank her, because she said, that's the perfect piece of artwork for my client's home. Can you bring it to the house? And I just started saying yes. Yes. And we're at the house. They loved it. We're going to design the whole bathroom around it. By the way, it wasn't my mother's piece. It was a different artist that I had brought in.
Michelle Lynne: Sorry, mom.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: But I wanted to take on other artists, because they found me, right? So I was carrying artwork, they would give it to me on consignment for free. I would show it in all these places. And then if I sold it, then I would pay them. So I'm at the person's house with the designer. She's like, can you help us frame it? And I'm like, absolutely. I don't know anything at that point. I don't know the difference between a watercolor and an oil. What needs matting? What needs glass? Like nothing. I have no idea.
Michelle Lynne: But you had the confidence to just say yes.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Which is why confidence is the basis of all my coaching, right? And I tend to very much attract people who are looking for that, I need to be able to charge my worth and run a profitable business, right? Because of that confidence. So anyway, went to a framer, figured it all out, had people teach me. Expressive Living Art Framing, and later, years, Accessories was born. And 17 years after, I was working with so many designers, watching them with their clients in the homes, watching the good, the bad and the ugly sometimes.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, yeah.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: And I started having seminars for them in my showroom, which was in my house. And a lot of them were business seminars, because that was my superpower.
Michelle Lynne: Absolutely.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: And when I turned 50, I was divorced at that point. Three kids that were now on the cusp of launching. Which by the way, they're still on the cusp of launching.
Michelle Lynne: It's been a weird couple of years though.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yeah, another couple of years, they'll be launched.
Michelle Lynne: Blame the pandemic.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: And I decided, You know what, I need to sell the house. It's too big for me. My kids are moving on. And I didn't want to carry shit around for a living anymore. Because we know it's not glamorous.
Michelle Lynne: Dear Lord no. Sweaty. It's heavy.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Sweaty, I'd have to carry 500 pieces of artwork in and out of people's homes with matting and framing selected all on premise.
Michelle Lynne: Wow.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yep, bring it in for framing, bring it back, supervise the installation. And then I expanded my house, I created a whole showroom for accessories. And we did the same thing with the accessories. Packed them all up, brought them to people's houses, staged them, sold or didn't sell. And then, you know, it was a lot, but for seventeen years, it was good.
Michelle Lynne: A lot of, just physical labor.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yes.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you weren't at the bank anymore?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: We missed the part where I was a personal trainer for a couple of years before my youngest was born. So I did switch it up. And I was in great shape at that stage of my life.
Michelle Lynne: You were just lifting different weights.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yep, not so much core. But hung my shingle as a coach too and transitioned out of Expressive Living and started coaching interior designers on how they could create profitable business just like you, and doesn't it feel so rewarding to do what we do?
Michelle Lynne: Oh, my gosh, I know, this is exactly where God wants me. Just to be able to assist women in earning what they're worth. Not what they're worth, because, you know, we're all worth a bazillion freaking dollars, because we're made in the image of God. But the services oftentimes are so not valued. And so I love that. So let's, I want to talk about your book.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Uh huh.
Michelle Lynne: So yes, I am very excited to be here. And I'm so excited to talk to you. But also, before we dive into the book, I want to talk about how, you know, in our industry, there's like some secretiveness, some competition, and sometimes not like a feeling of scarcity. And I want to just say that, you know, leading by example, as two coaches, here.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yep.
Michelle Lynne: You know, it's important that we all just recognize that there's somebody for everybody. And as a coach that I am, I've got my program, I do some one-on-ones, you do your one-on-ones, you do your programs and stuff like that. It's important that people find who they connect with.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: One hundred percent.
Michelle Lynne: I'm not for everybody. Like, I'm totally not. I get that. It's the same thing with your clients, is that you're not for everybody.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Correct. Correct. Lesson 101, right?
Michelle Lynne: Yeah.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Not everyone is your client. And for the people who are listening who are eventually looking for a coach, if ever, you just do have to be attracted to almost like their voice, their style, the way they communicate. And if you're not, don't try to force it, because it's never going to work.
Michelle Lynne: It's like dating it.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Oh, it's exactly like dating. And I know that well, by the way.
Michelle Lynne: That's a conversation for cocktails.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Absolutely.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, so let us just lead into this conversation. I want to talk about your book and just other things that are applicable to this industry and what you bring to so many individuals. But just leading by example, that we've got two coaches here that are arm in arm wanting to continue to lift the industry, one person at a time.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Absolutely, and it's going to take all of us to do that. Because this industry really when I came into it, it was a whole different ballgame back then.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, I couldn't find anybody to help.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: That's right.
Michelle Lynne: I think it's because nobody knew what the hell they were doing.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Correct.
Michelle Lynne: So they didn't want to share.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Right. And then there's a whole new education that we're giving the public, as well as giving the designers on what this industry is worth. And that's been my mission since I started. Like this, these services, for the people who are listening, are so valuable, and people need them. And you need to be there to be able to serve them, right?
Michelle Lynne: Yes, yes, yes, I do, too. So Nancy's book is called, Respond with Confidence. And I got it off of Amazon, like, maybe right when it came out. And I've had the chance to flip through it. And just, I'm so excited for you. Congratulations, Nancy. This is a hell of a, I mean, I can barely get, I outsource my blogging because I can barely get a blog done these days. God bless you for getting a book done.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: It was not easy. And about halfway through I hired a book coach, book writing coach, and halfway through, I went, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't like this, it's painful. And it's stopping me from doing other things. And I turned into a big baby. And I was like, I'm a talker. I'm not a writer, can I hire a ghostwriter? And he's like, you can, but you're halfway through. I'm like, oh, it's so tough. And it's such a simple book, Michelle. It's not a difficult book. It's one of those books that reminds you of the things you've learned your whole life. But you sometimes need to go back and remember, and back to basics, right?
Michelle Lynne: Yes.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: It's not complicated. But when I get someone who calls me or sends me a DM, I just pulled out your book because I have a difficult client, and they needed to reread, to walk away, give it 24 hours and come back and reread what I wrote and take out the emotion and all the, you know, angst and upset and then send it and get, I thank you for giving that opportunity to them to look back at the book. I thought, that's why I did it.
Michelle Lynne: Absolutely. Just and it's so funny, because one of the things that I marked in your book is, don't assume they're out to get you. And I just see that so often, in so many of our forum conversations on Facebook and whatnot, that, you know, people are pissed off because they're shopping them, or they're pissed off because they're asking for something different or whatever. And oftentimes, it seems like, it's us as designers against the clients, whereas really, it's just that the clients aren't educated. And that's our own lack of confidence to tell them, here's how it works, and here's our boundaries, and et cetera, et cetera. So just in regard to what you just said about the email, like
Nancy Ganzekaufer: They are allowed to ask, you just have to answer and take the emotion out of it. And the story we tell ourselves as to what they must be thinking about us. How could they ask that question? They think I'm trying to rip them off, or they think this. What if they just think, I want to ask this question, and I need it to be answered. And it's that simple. It's the stories we all tell ourselves that create the drama.
Michelle Lynne: And they're usually stories, based on our insecurity.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yes, or a story we've heard from someone else that's never happened to us, but yet was somehow applying it to us. Right? Instead of staying in our own lane, in our own lives, and not worrying about everybody else and what they've been through.
Michelle Lynne: That's a great point. Yeah, absolutely. And color me crazy, but my mind reading skills suck. When I assume somebody's doing something, I'm probably like, yeah, I'm making that shit up.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Exactly. Yeah. And it was funny because again, when I first started this book, why did I start it? It started out as a completely different thing. It started out as, I'm gonna write a book about my life. My life, like most people's lives, have interesting aspects to it. Right? I've had three kids, they were all sick, I have one transgender son, I have one gay son, I have a daughter who is a travel agent who travels the world, like really different things.
Michelle Lynne: Amazing. Yeah.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: You know, going through a divorce and still being very amicable with my ex. So I called the book coach to say, I want to write a book about like this stuff, right? How do you get through all this stuff? And he's like, nah, no one really cares about that. I'm like, oh, really? Yeah. All right, I guess you're right. He's like, let's take note over the next two weeks of what people call you for primarily. I'm like, well, they call me to ask me how to make more money and how to charge their worth. And he's like, okay, but just take note over the next two weeks. Over the next two weeks, I was noticing more and more, the prevalent conversation was, this client is saying this, what do I say back? My son, Mom, this professor said this, because I wrote this. Now how do I fix it, right? And my girlfriend, who was a manager in a medical office calls me and says, I have a difficult staff member, she did this, this, and this. And this is what I'm thinking of doing. But I want to check with you first, right? And realizing, people were calling me to ask how to respond in business situations. So hence, how it ended up being, Respond with Confidence, The Business Owner's Blueprint for Handling Difficult Situations. And then I peppered my stories of my life where I learned lessons related to communication into the book.
Michelle Lynne: And that makes it all that much more personal. But the stories also make it much more believable. Because you can stand at the top of the mountain and speak to people but when you can tell them that this is a mountain that I climbed, and I'm going to show you how to do it, the credibility there is just amazing.
Michelle Lynne: Hey, y'all, as my interior design business grew, there were some struggles that quickly surfaced. It was balancing, management, just all of the things that come together, and especially when it came to consolidating my marketing efforts, my client relationship management, social media planning, website building, all the things. I felt like Dr. Frankenstein, just trying to tie all of these things together and it didn't really come out very pretty. I thought it would be great if I could find something that would bring everything together into one place. And I believe I have found it. The support of Sidemark, growing your interior design business has never been easier. It will be available this spring. Sidemark is an all new, all in one software that organizes sales, marketing, and business services all in one convenient location. By signing up for Sidemark, you too can get access to all of the essential tools needed to help your business succeed. With features such as a built-in website builder, a custom sales pipeline, email marketing, client relationship management, scheduling on a calendar, and more. This is going to expand your interior design business and make it a breeze. Go online now to join the waitlist at mysidemark.com. You will receive 10% off your first year and get notified of all of the new and exciting updates yet to come. Visit mysidemark.com to start your journey towards successful business growth without the stress and join mysidemark.com today. You won't be sorry.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: And can I tell you one more story?
Michelle Lynne: Absolutely.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Because it was really like therapeutic for me. The book starts out telling a story about how when I was an art consultant, an interior designer who was really making me jump through hoops getting the right artwork for her own home, It wasn't even for a client, and I don't know how many emails, five, six in changing her mind, changing her price point, changing the style of the art, oh, I was going crazy. So I hit respond and wrote, I hit forward to my assistant at the time and said oh my god, what a pain in the ass this woman is, bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla, and I had hit reply instead of forward.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, son of a monkey.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yep. And I stood up, my whole family was there. I started screaming, I'm throwing my computer at my kids, because they were young teenagers like, help, take it back, how do you get the email to come back? Right? So there was no way, she had a Blackberry. I ran into my bathroom, you'll read it in the book if you choose to buy it, everyone. But in the end, two months ago, I was hired to speak local, at an event for interior designers. And I walked in, and everyone was getting a copy of my book, and she was there. Now, obviously, I didn't name her in the book, but I walked right up to her. I'm like, hey, remember me? And she's like, yes, I do, Nancy, how are you? Then I'm like, oh, I'm great. And she was friendly to me. But I said, by the way, there's 100 copies of the book in those bags. And when you're reading it, you're the story in the front. Do you remember when, and I repeated it and she's like, yes, I tell that story often. I'm like, oh.
Michelle Lynne: Ouch.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yeah. But then you know what? She graciously said, we've all made mistakes. And it's over. And congratulations on your book. So she was very gracious about i.
Michelle Lynne: That's fantastic. Well, that and it just goes to show that you know what, there's nobody that doesn't make mistakes. So when people are feeling like they're an impostor, or that, you know, that you've got all your shizizzle together, because you look polished on your Instagram, there's all sorts of stories that we all have. And it is truly responding with confidence, because you could have like, not even greeted her when you walked into that room.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yes.
Michelle Lynne: So that, I mean, that would have been the easy way out.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: My heart was racing.
Michelle Lynne: I can only imagine. Yeah, and how many years have passed?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Oh, my goodness. I mean, that was, so I've been a coach for six years now. And that was probably in my first five years of being an art consultant.
Michelle Lynne: And your heart was still racing.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yeah, because you know, it's embarrassing to make a mistake. But the bottom line is, just like I did when it happened, I faced it, I called her right away, I said, you're gonna open up your email, you're not gonna be happy with what you see. So I'm not going to ask you to delete it without reading it. But if you decide to read it, my apologies. And then I made my excuses. I'm having a tough night. My kids are sick, blah, blah, blah, which I don't even remember if they were true or not. And hopefully, you'll still do business with me. And she's like, of course, I will. But no, she never did.
Michelle Lynne: But on the other hand, that kind of goes back to not every client, it's for you. Because that was kind of a relief not to have to deal with it anymore.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: It really was.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah. Well, it's like sometimes getting like, so that's, that's a great question. So when you get negative feedback from a client, or maybe a client says, I just don't want to work with you anymore. Whatever the case may be. What do you see is the biggest mistake that people make when they get that feedback?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: I think they try to hold on too much. I mean, I always say, if you're a business owner who has 15 clients pending, or in the hopper, or in your pipeline, one client saying, I don't think you're the right designer for me, let's say, is going to not devastate you. You're gonna be like, you know what, you're right. Maybe it's better if you work with someone else. But if you only have one, two, or three clients on the docket,
Michelle Lynne: It hurts.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: you're suddenly like, well, what did I do wrong? And how do I get it back? And how do I save it? And really, sometimes it's not just, it's not about you at all. It's just that it's not a good fit. And in the dating world, you learn quickly to say, I don't think we're a match even though you're a really great person. And you can learn to say that in your business, and not dwell on it, and feel like a failure because it's just not meant to be, then it will take you light years, you know, into the future and advance your business just by getting the confidence not to chase someone who's really not a good fit.
Michelle Lynne: And you'll have more joy.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Much more joy.
Michelle Lynne: Because like, I look back at the yahoos that I dated before I met my husband, and I didn't get married until I was 37. So I did a lot of yahoos. Thank God, none of them asked me to marry them. You know? Because I dodged a few bullets there.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Exactly.
Michelle Lynne: Because I probably would have said yes, just out of stupid, out of ignorance, let's just call it ignorance. So you can apply that to your clients as well. Dodged that bullet.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Definitely. The relief, you sleep so much better when you let a difficult client go that doesn't match your style, or refuses to go into your well-established, well-oiled machine of a process. And they are trying to make you change it and you're going, maybe I should, to accommodate them because they are the client. Like, no, that's not a good fit.
Michelle Lynne: Absolutely, absolutely. So what do you do instead of reacting? So instead of saying, okay, you know, either you get pissed off because they give you the negative feedback or they tell you that you're not, that you guys are not a good fit, or maybe they just give you negative feedback or something that you take as a critical comment, because you are working with them.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: You know, it's a matter of people tend to react, meaning right away. They're like just oh my god, and they respond. And they start to reel in what I described in the book as like a tornado. Right? This emotional tornado that's spinning. But what I'm suggesting in the book is they take time to decompress first, right? We don't have to answer everyone the minute they message us. Whether it comes through text or email. It's not, you don't have to just because they messaged you, doesn't mean you have to say, you said to jump, I did.
Michelle Lynne: Yes, Nancy, I had this conversation with somebody on my team yesterday. So whenever this whole podcast comes out, it was just yesterday. But I had this conversation. Yes.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yeah, it happens all the time.
Michelle Lynne: Take time, like step away, and then go back and respond.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yeah. So basically, what I teach people in the book is to decompress first. That could be taking a walk, calling your best friend, venting to your dog, exercising, watching TV, I don't care how you decompress. I give you a bunch of ideas. But you want to decompress first when something upsets you. And even if it's meant to be constructive and you didn't take it that way, you need to be compressive. You feel you're getting upset. And yes, as women, it tends to happen more than men, but there are men also, and I coach men as well, that really get ramped up quickly. So decompress first and then go to assess the situation. Know, make a decision in advance how you want this situation to play out.
Michelle Lynne: There you go.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: And then reverse engineer your response.
Michelle Lynne: It's just kind of like designing a room, you know what you want the room to look like, you have to reverse engineer and fit into the budget, the scale, the blah, blah, blah, blah, style.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Correct. Correct. Because if I want to save this relationship, my response is going to be different than if I want to say goodbye, we're not a match, or whether I want to consciously modify my process, because they brought up a good point. And maybe I did miscommunicate something and I want to modify. What do you want the result to be? And then also in that assess section is, assess the previous communications, because when I analyzed how I advise people, one of my steps, which I never even realized until this coach pointed out to me was, read through the previous communications as if you were the client, or you are the person on the other side. Did you actually miscommunicate along the way as well? Right? So you want to assess the string of communication of what's happened.
Michelle Lynne: Yes. Because oftentimes we take for granted what we do, and don't explain it or educate our clients enough.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Correct.
Michelle Lynne: Like, hey, it was a COM. It was not my fault, blah, blah, blah, or whatever. It's like, what the hell is a COM?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: I was gonna say, and what's a COM is going to be their next question, right?
Michelle Lynne: Uh huh. And so we take for granted because we're in the middle of this industry all the time. Or we're in the middle of our processes all the time.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yes, yes.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah. I think, you had a chapter on it. Well, one, I love the solution focus. You started with Tony Robbins, who's one of my favorites. But Chapter Six is that it all starts with you. And you say, you know, evaluate yourself, and then reflect on your motivation, because sometimes we just want to be right.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yep.
Michelle Lynne: And that isn't necessarily the case.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yep.
Michelle Lynne: Assess the outcome, which is what you just said. So yeah, I mean, you've got some amazing nuggets in here. I might have to go buy this for my whole family.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: It's interesting, because my 25-year-old reads it and comes out only like three chapters in and she's like, okay, mom, like, every one of my friends needs to read this before they enter the workforce. And I'm like, I never even thought of that as marketing the book in that way. But that's why I do love to hear other people's feedback. I'm gonna buy this from my husband, I get twice, twice, which is so unusual for me, my husband, who hasn't read a book in 30 years, picked the book up, read the whole thing, and thought it was amazing. I'm like, okay, one, because it's a simple read, which is great.
Michelle Lynne: It's very simple without being like you're talking down to anybody or remedial. It's still very educational, while being easy to read.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Right. And that was my goal. And when there was a point of, you know, listen, everyone gets their moments of insecurity, I had plenty of moments of insecurity with this book. I said, I'm like, it's too simple. It's too simple. Everyone's going to like, think it's for kindergarteners, you know? I was just really like, at one point, I was reeling, and somebody said to me, what are your favorite books? And I'm like, business books. The Perfect Day Formula. It's like the simplest book ever. And then I named another one and another one and they were all very simple, quick reads that I could gain quick lessons from that were easy to understand. And this is so important also with staff, right? One of the things I love to do the most, I've been managing people since I was 24 years old, I love to help people grow teams and manage their staff. And this helps with that.
Michelle Lynne: Love it.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Because communicating with confidence and communicating period is so important when you're starting to grow a team.
Michelle Lynne: That's so funny, I didn't realize that you and I have a very similar background. I went into management, like right out of college. So I was 23, 24. And I've been managing people since then. And there's such an innate, I can't speak for you, but I learned the hard way by being, you know, 12 years old and managing people. You know, I did a lot of things wrong. So yeah, had I had this book, because there's a lot of things that you learn just by bumps and bruises, that would have been super helpful. And that's what I teach people, my team, and clients and stuff now.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: They're reminders. It's just like, I don't know if you ever diet Michelle, but you know what, if you diet, you can read about dieting for our entire lives, and just oh yeah, forgot about that. Oh, yeah, let me read, like these are refreshers that we tend to move away from when we're busy. Right? So that's why.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, just moving at the speed of lightning. Now, I think you mentioned in the book, you don't like the phrase, I'm sorry.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yep.
Michelle Lynne: Can you expand on that? Because I think that that's a very common phrase that we're taught, the client's always right.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: It is one of the phrases that drives me crazy. And believe it or not my entire team, when they get hired, and when they're on, they're not allowed to say they're sorry. Because to me, I'm sorry, means I did something purposely to hurt you, and I need to say I'm sorry. And I do say I'm sorry. I'm not a person who never says, I'm sorry. If I've done something to hurt you purposefully, I will be the first, like when I say purposefully, it could be purposely by mistake, but it's more of the hurtful, right? That I really affected someone's emotions. But other than that, most things I categorize, and I don't think I worded it in the book this way, although it would have been a good way. They're more like accidents.
Michelle Lynne: Yes.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Right? Because when my staff makes a mistake sending an email and sends it out to the entire world instead of the 10 people who were supposed to get it, I'm like, it used to be, oh, my God, I'm so sorry, Nancy. But I don't, it's okay. Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody has accidents. Obviously, if you meant to do it, I would fire you. But you didn't mean to do it. It's an accident. I make mistakes. So all I want from my staff is, Nancy, this is what happened. This is why it happened. This is how we fixed it. And this is how it's not going to happen again. Those four things. And now the communication with my team is amazing. They don't even apologize to themselves as much. Although I hear it once in a while. It's just, tell me how you fixed it, how it happened. I know you're human. Everyone is human.
Michelle Lynne: Yes. And that's funny because I had this conversation with my three-year-old daughter just this week. And she said, I'm sorry, mom. I'm sorry, mom. And I was like, Baby, it's okay. Did you mean to spill? I don't know even what it was. Did you mean to spill your water? And it was just like, if it's an accident, it's okay. You know, it happens. And I'm praying that as she gets older, she doesn't have that automatic lingo of I'm sorry, because it's, well I love the way you explained it. Like, I've never put my finger on it. But I can feel it in my heart. I don't want you to feel like you did something wrong.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Exactly. Right. And when you think about, you're giving them the ability to be human and make a mistake, and just explain what happened, and how it's not gonna happen again. You're actually providing growth for them, as well. And I feel better. I feel better when I'm not hearing, I mean, this is truly one of my biggest pet peeves, like when I'm around a bunch of women, and someone says, does anyone need anything from the kitchen? And I say, I'd love a glass of water. Okay, great. And they forget to bring it back. No big deal, right? So I get up and go to get it, and oh, I'm so sorry. I forgot to get your water. You don't need to apologize for that. I'm sorry, to me is, you could just truly say, whoops, I forgot to get your water. Let me go get it, or, you know, you just don't have to say I'm sorry. I'm sorry in almost every situation can be replaced. I can't believe that happened. Let me make it right. Right?
Michelle Lynne: And it diminishes us to say I'm sorry because I think that takes a little bit away from our something, but it diminishes our worth, I don't know if that's the right thing, but it feels that way.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: It does. Especially in a client, service provider relationship. Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to call you back. Oh, I'm sorry, that came in late. Oh, I'm sorry, that sofa is going to be delayed. That's taking ownership of stuff that you didn't have control over. Or, unfortunately, I didn't get to call you back yesterday, but I called you first thing this morning. You don't have to add the I'm sorry.
Michelle Lynne: It changes so much right there. It continues to keep you as equals. It's one professional hiring another professional, you are not subservient even though we are in a service type of industry.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Seriously, I could talk about this for hours.
Michelle Lynne: I was just gonna say, this needs to be a whole podcast. Because this is just like getting under my skin. It's so true.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Listen, peers. I'm a peer. When you hire me as your coach, you're a peer that has a very distinct talent that I do not have. And I'm a peer that has a very distinct talent that you don't have. So you're hiring me to teach you from my talent. And someday I'm going to possibly hire you for your talent. You should never let a client make you feel less than just because they're exchanging money with you for what you do best. And that's part of what that I'm sorry, changes the balance of the power in the relationship. And you will notice this with spouses, siblings, children, and clients, and professional peer relationships. If you're always the one saying I'm sorry on a construction site with a bunch of men, and you're the woman, you will quickly find they are walking all over you and not respecting you.
Michelle Lynne: Damn skippy. Yeah, that is such a true statement. Okay, well, we will just schedule another podcast for that, because I could go into that one. And using the word just. I just wanted to email you.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yep.
Michelle Lynne: And you pull that out, and it still puts you as you're interrupting them. Or things along that line. So yes, just keeping that balance of power.
Michelle Lynne: Imagine trying to bake a cake without a recipe. You kind of know what the ingredients are, but you don't know how to put it all together. After lots of hard work and trying different combinations, all you are left with is a sticky situation and a stomachache. Babe, running an interior design business can feel exactly that same way. That is why I created The Interior Design Business Bakery. This is a program that teaches you how to bake your interior design business cake and eat it too. If you don't want to figure out the hard way, and you want guidance to follow, a recipe that has already been vetted, someone that has already been there and done it and will help you do it too, then check out the year-long mentorship and coaching program, The Interior Design Business Bakery. If your interior design business revenue is below $300,000, or if you're struggling to make a profit and keep your sanity, this is the only program for you. You can find that information at designedforthecreativemind.com/business-bakery. Check it out. You won't regret it.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: I know it's a lot.
Michelle Lynne: I'm fired up. Let me get some water.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: I know, I need a sip of my coffee. What happened was, and I'm looking for the page because I don't even remember the link exactly. We created a document. I'm literally looking in my own book because I can't remember the website. When you buy the book, there's a part where it says you can download a PDF, which we titled, Don't Say That, Say This.
Michelle Lynne: Oh yeah. Resource Guide on page 133.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Okay, it's free. And it allows you to post word replacements on your desk. So if you struggle with saying things a certain way that may come across as either I'm sorry, aggressive, curt, I mean, I can't tell you how many emails and texts I rewrite from my one-on-one clients. You know, I always say, what do you want to say, put it together first. Because I don't want them coaching with me forever. I am meant to coach them to be great businesspeople and fly on their own. But then I quickly turn it now, you write it next time and let me see how you do. And we start training them on how to respond differently to difficult situations.
Michelle Lynne: What a great service that is. I mean because my team and I, we do that. But teaching just your outside coaching clients how to review that, because Debbie and Megan, they can do it all now because that's what we started doing because they were my team. But, hell, I'm gonna have to keep that in mind, just so I can refer people. Because that in itself is a huge, huge skill.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: That's half of what Voxer is used for. So all my one-on-one with group clients get a walkie-talkie access to me.
Michelle Lynne: I love Voxer.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: They'll be like, my client said this, what do I say back? And they'll know in the beginning, I'll spoon-feed them, and then a month or two into the relationship coaching with me, I'll be like, what do you want to say? And how will you say it? And then we start training them to, they joke around they go, think like Nancy, they use the air quotes. What would Nancy say, right? And we start training them to think less emotionally, more logically, and less from a place of insecurity and more confidence.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, I'm gonna look you up on Voxer.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: I'll be happy to get a message from you, Michelle.
Michelle Lynne: So last question, and then we're gonna go into my fun little rapid-fire Q&A questioning. What's your advice for dealing with an online bad review? I just actually came across this not so long ago. Thankfully not for me, but it was one of my,
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Okay, so I'm gonna give you my personal, I had a personal experience, and then how I coach my clients. So my personal experience was unfortunate. It was an ex-boyfriend who decided he was mad at me for breaking up and he put scathing, not one but two, reviews. So it's a wonderful thing, that was multiple years ago, three or four years ago, to have a great community to say, can everyone help me out? You tag it in Facebook, you tag it as inappropriate, Facebook, if it's enough people reporting it, will take it down. And then I also said, if you feel so kind as to give me a review for what I do for you, I'd appreciate it. So if Facebook doesn't take it down, we can bury it. So that did happen.
Michelle Lynne: Genius.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yes, you too can do that. So they did take it down. Plus, I got 46 reviews in one day. So I'm like, hmm, maybe I should try that again.
Michelle Lynne: Who else can I piss off?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Right. Through my tears that day. I'm like, this is so nice. Right? I went into my group, the Interior Design Business Forum. And I'm like, I think it had about three thousand people in it at the time. Now it's up to, I don't know, seven or eight thousand.
Michelle Lynne: Amazing.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: But it was like, could you all please do me a favor. But if a client gets a negative review, an interior designer, let's say, their tendency is to be so verbose in answering it. Well, you said this, and I said this and da da da, and I want them to know, and na na na. And I'm like, no, you're getting sucked into that negative tornado. And it's much more professional for you to say one of a couple of things. So let me think, one could be, as we discussed on the phone, these were not exactly the facts, but I am disappointed that you are upset. And like literally leave it at that. Right? It's going to show that you took the high road.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah. And you said, you didn't even say, I'm sorry you're upset.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: No. No. And again, it's like natural for me not to say I'm sorry anymore, that sometimes I actually have to go, oh, I should have said I'm sorry. Another way to handle it would be the way I handled mine. Get your loving, supporting, family, friends, and ex-clients to bury the review while reporting it, if possible. But most of the time, I'd say get a check on reality of how many people are actually going to see that bad review and believe it. And give a really professional, it’s unfortunate that you feel that way. I provided you with everything that I had promised you I would provide you with for what you paid me.
Michelle Lynne: Yes. And it's just, it's just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Just the facts. And in my group, somebody did write like a very long, this woman wrote this, so I'm thinking of writing this back, and oh my god, it was so long. And I'm like, please don't do that. And I just said, I'm like, please don't do that. Just do not have a public pissing match.
Michelle Lynne: Yes. I see that on my Next-Door app all the time. Right?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yes.
Michelle Lynne: Do you guys not have anything better to do than come up with these responses that are just like, like you said, a pissing match.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Right? And how long did it take you to come up with that pissing match?
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, I got better things to do.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: That was an hour that you could have been working and billing a client just by, you know, pissing back on this client, so fearful that it's going to change the trajectory of your business forever. No, it's not. It's one review. You answer professionally. You just dismiss it basically is my answer. You dismiss it, with unfortunately, we are not a match as we discovered during working together, but I am happy I was able to provide you all the value that you paid for.
Michelle Lynne: And anything, that professionalism is going to show anybody who's reading it, that you have that emotional and professional maturity to just move on. Maybe I will call her. It could work in the other direction.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Exactly.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, how fun.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: And that's what you want is to always look like the professional. Don't lower yourself to their level ever.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah. I love that Nancy, and holy cow, I could literally sit here and have another hour or two conversation with you. I do hope to have the pleasure of meeting and hugging you in the future. But in the meantime, in the meantime, the next segment is a rapid-fire Q&A.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Oh no.
Michelle Lynne: It's just so that our audience can get to know you just a little bit better. Nothing's off the table. Ha ha ha. So let's see what we've got. We'll start off easy. Are you left-handed or right-handed?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Righty.
Michelle Lynne: When was the last time you laughed until you almost peed yourself?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Two days ago with my daughter, over the cave cricket that was hopping around my house and didn't want to catch it. She was screaming at 25 years old. She's screaming I'm walking around with the Swiffer, we're screaming, were laughing It was really funny.
Michelle Lynne: That sounds fun. Everybody needs a good laugh. More often than not. What's your dream travel destination?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: I want to go back to Tuscany. I've been there already. But I would love to live in Tuscany for two or three months. I'm really just, I'm all Italian so I would love to just get more into the food and the
Michelle Lynne: We should gather a whole bunch of interior design business coaches and have a mastermind at a villa. What do you say?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: I'm in. Totally. I'd love to do that. Or a bunch of clients and just do a full interior design masterclass, three-day or a week, whatever, retreat.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, that sounds great. Have a couple people rotating through, you can stay for a week. Yeah, yeah. Oh, the things we could do and write it off on taxes. Chocolate chip or oatmeal cookie?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Chocolate chip every time.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah. Red or white wine?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Chardonnay, white.
Michelle Lynne: Oh. Brand? Do you have a favorite?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: No. I'm an equal opportunity chardonnay drinker. No, I do not have, I like many, but I do order my wine from Dry Farm Wines, which is low sugar and no sulfates. Because of my trip to Tuscany. I couldn't believe how much we could drink and not have a hangover.
Michelle Lynne: Right. Right, right, right. Yeah. And yes, I'm a full believer with that. Okay, if you couldn't be in the profession you're in now, what would you be doing?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: If I couldn't be in the profession I'm in now. So it's not my dream, since I was a kid.
Michelle Lynne: Or if you weren't, if you weren't in this profession, what would you be?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: I don't know. What would I be?
Michelle Lynne: That's a good thing. Right?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yeah. And that's, you know what, I love what I do. And what didn't come up is I'm also a body language trainer, which goes hand in hand with communication. So I've been continuing my education so that I can continue to teach. I guess maybe I'd be a psychologist.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, well, you kind of are, right?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yeah.
Michelle Lynne: And I'm glad it didn't come up as body language, because I would have had to turn my camera off as we record this audio.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Everybody gets nervous when I tell them I'm a body language trainer.
Michelle Lynne: I love that though. It's so, new podcast. Innie belly button or outie belly button?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Innie.
Michelle Lynne: And what is your favorite form of exercise?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Treadmill and running outside, which I can no longer do without aches and pains so much, but I still love it as my go to to clear my head, would be running.
Michelle Lynne: That's how you decompress.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yes.
Michelle Lynne: There you go. When was the last time you took a nap?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: In High Point, a week ago. I don't know when this is coming out, but in October.
Michelle Lynne: It was just yesterday, I had that conversation with my staff, my team member.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yeah, when I was had High Point, I got tired. I'm like, I don't need to be anywhere. I could be a lot of places. But you know what, I'm gonna go back and take a nap in my hotel room. And it was fabulous.
Michelle Lynne: Amen. Yes. So are you an introvert or an extrovert?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: I am an ambivert, which is a little bit of both. I gain a lot of energy from being around people that I'm helping. But when I go into a, just a social situation, sometimes it's a little draining for me. So I have to go rejuvenate and be by myself. So I'm a little bit of both.
Michelle Lynne: That makes sense. I can see that. There's a difference when you go to social versus going to serve.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yes, yes.
Michelle Lynne: I haven't given that much though.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: And going to serve is what helps a lot of people. One of my kids suffers from pretty severe social anxiety and there's a tie there to when you are serving, you tend not to feel it as much as when you're just being yourself. Which is interesting, right?
Michelle Lynne: Because the attention is not on you, the attention is on the audience that you're serving.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Correct. And the information you're giving and providing. Right.
Michelle Lynne: Love that. All right, last question. Just to respect everybody's time we're running. It's been such a great conversation. We just need to have like three of these. If you could have dinner with anybody dead or alive. Who would you invite? One person.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Vanessa Van Edwards, who wrote the book, Captivate, who is my body language trainer. She's the one who certified me. And I love her. And I love the science behind body language. And just her whole mission in life and understanding human nature and the nonverbal, is fascinating to me that I would love to get her to dinner and talk to her all about that.
Michelle Lynne: And watch.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: And watch, right? Her and I would be watching each other the whole time. I love science behind sales and body language and communication. So it's always fascinating to me, people who actually put science behind what they teach. Which is why I pursued that.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, because there's more than just what, no pun intended, there's more than what meets the eye.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Ba dum bump.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, my gosh, Nancy, thank you so much for being on the show today. I have thoroughly enjoyed this. I've loved watching you grow and thrive, you know, over the past few years and really wished you were around when I was starting my business. It was just not so pretty. But I'm certain that the audience has loved everything you've shared on today's podcast. So can you tell them how and where they can connect with you?
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Well, certainly they can go to my website, which is nancyganzekaufer.com, which I'm sure you'll put a link in, and they can join my Facebook group, the Interior Design Business Forum, if they're an interior designer. I also just want to thank you so much for having me on the Designed for the Creative Mind podcast here, Michelle.
Michelle Lynne: Absolutely.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: I've been watching you too. And you are doing amazing with your Bakery. And everyone's having such success that it's so impressive to watch you grow and help so many people also. So thank you for everything you do for the industry, too, because I really do believe all of us need to help everyone who needs help.
Michelle Lynne: Yes, a rising tide lifts all boats.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Definitely.
Michelle Lynne: And this industry is just so, so hungry. Because what we do serves, I mean, it changes lives.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: It does.
Michelle Lynne: In somebody's homes, they wake up to a refuge, they go to sleep in a refuge, they can be their best selves in the middle of the day.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Yeah. The collaboration that we are showing from the top down, so to speak, right? The coaches, collaborating, being friendly, supporting each other, is what's going to make them realize that when I started in this industry, nobody would share me as an art consultant. No, I'm not going to share my art consultant. And I'm like, please share me because otherwise I'm not gonna be here for you when you need me, right? So the key thing to share your resources, be generous with your knowledge, is just the basis of everything that I do.
Michelle Lynne: I love that.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: So thank you for having me. I truly appreciate it.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, my gosh, well, we will do this again. So watch for Nancy again, in the future. If you enjoyed this one, or whenever you're listening to it, you might search and find it, we've got three more, I think we've got enough conversational pieces. And for those of you who can benefit from even more resources surrounding the business of running your interior design business, reach out to Nancy, you can also join my growing community on Facebook's private group. It's called the Interior Designers Business Launchpad. I go live there once a week with just some mini trainings. And then I also have workshops every eight-ish weeks. So I hope to see you guys there. And Nancy, thank you again so much.
Nancy Ganzekaufer: Thank you, Michelle, talk to you soon.
Michelle Lynne: Hey, y'all. If you love the show and find it useful, I would really appreciate it if you would share with your friends and followers. And if you like what you're hearing, want to put a face with the name and get even more business advice, then join me in my Facebook group, the Interior Designers Business Launchpad. Yeah, I know it's Facebook, but just come on in for the training and then leave without scrolling your feed. It's fun. I promise you'll enjoy it. And finally, I hear it's good for business to get ratings on your podcast. So please drop yours on whatever platform you use to listen to this. We're all about community over competition, so let's work on elevating our industry, one designer at a time. See you next time.
