Transcript
Michelle Lynne: Hello, everybody, welcome back! Today I am super excited because I have Shelly Rosenberg here. She is an interior designer and the founder of Acorn & Oak, and specializes in Inclusive Design for families living with mental and physical disability. And Shelly, thank you so much for being here. I'm honored and just so excited to get more detail about what you provide.
Shelly Rosenberg: Oh, thank you! I'm thrilled! I've been an avid listener of your podcast. I love your programs and all the advice that I get, and I'm just I'm thrilled to be able to share some more.
Michelle Lynne: Well, I remember and we talked a little bit about this before we hopped on to the recording, but I was one of those people who, from social media, was admiring you from afar with your design work. And then I saw you pivoting to Acorn & Oak, and just thought that this is the coolest platform. So for the listeners who are not familiar, tell us a little bit more about Acorn & Oak, how it evolved, and what differentiates it from just standard design?
Shelly Rosenberg: I would love to. I have three kids, my oldest is 23 now. 23, 20, and 9.
Michelle Lynne: Holy moly!
Shelly Rosenberg: Yeah, big gap there. Both the girls had various special needs. They went to a school for dyslexia, dysgraphia, ADHD, various learning differences and it was hard. Over the years, I sort of learned how to change their environment to best support their needs. They had a lot of sensory issues.
My oldest daughter has ADHD and needed a lot of stimulation. The middle one was diagnosed just a couple of years ago on the autism spectrum, and she needed very little stimulation. So without even knowing it, just in trying to raise my girls and helping them be happy, and productive and safe, I was constantly manipulating environments to try to make them more empowered.
Then I remarried and I have a son, Ronan, who is 9 and he has Down syndrome. So I realized that, okay, this is a walk of life. And obviously, that brought in an entirely new realm of people and families and friends that I now have, who have kids with much bigger needs and issues. I felt with my design business, for a while, there was a little bit of a disconnect, until a lot of these other moms that I was growing closer to said, wait a minute, don't quit design, help us. We really need guidance on how to make our homes work better for us because we're already, you know, exhausted.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, just having to put that extra energy into an already difficult job of raising children.
Shelly Rosenberg: Exactly.
Michelle Lynne: So you just did it naturally through your own home, and you were doing interior design as your career, but the two were not married. And that's where, correct me if I'm wrong, Acorn & Oak came from.
Shelly Rosenberg: Yes. I really felt like I wanted to pivot and work with families that are walking the walk that I was also doing. I could see that this community was vastly underserved. And they're not seeking out a lot of help, because honestly, they are living day to day, sometimes in and out of hospitals. I mean, interior design is just not at the top of their priority list.
Michelle Lynne: And until it's brought to their attention, and they can see how it affects their children. Yeah, it's not even a thing. It's just like, give me a couch where I can pass out on and take a nap when I have time.
Shelly Rosenberg: Exactly right. But a client that I've been working with over the past year recently called and said that we've been talking about moving a door and redoing a bathroom. They said it's paramount now that we really begin because they had to call 911 and have an emergency crew come out and get their daughter this last week. And because of the way their home is configured, the EMS personnel couldn't even get the stretcher into the bedroom.
She's like this is just not going to work for us. I mean, like we have to bite the bullet and do this. So, I would love to start getting the word out to these families that there's so much preventative that we can do before you get to a crisis point. Not only the kids that have special needs, but also the parents that are the caregivers that need that emotional support.
Michelle Lynne: Well, that and just, it's almost like peace of mind knowing that, while things may go wrong, the things that you can control can be addressed.
Shelly Rosenberg: Yes.
Michelle Lynne: So the way this came about was truly organic. Do you know of anybody else who is in a similar niche?
Shelly Rosenberg: You know, I was listening to one of your past episodes with Ginger Curtis, and she was talking about how, you know, taking life's challenges and things you're dealing with personally, often kind of illuminate a niche that you are interested in, going into. And, really, that's how it happened for me. I just thought that I'm dealing with this every day, and I've gotten better and better over the years, and I just realized this is something that I could really share with families. In addition to that, I realized, you know, this is something I could share with other designers too.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah! I just discovered that when when I got your information, and I just think that is a freaking genius resource that, you know, for my team and I, as designers, wouldn't know where to start.
Shelly Rosenberg: Well, you don't know what you don't know. I mean, I bring in experts all the time to help me. Like a Fung Shui expert to work on a space that energetically just doesn't feel right, and I'm not sure what's going on, or a lighting specialist, or a stylist for photography.
So unless you really have this life experience, in particular, I have a fire in the belly for kids with disabilities, I mean, you're not going to become an expert in this field. And why would you? You may only have a handful of clients that ever need this kind of sensory exploration. But when you do, instead of having to spend time researching and learning, I'd love to become a resource where we could connect and have a consultation, and then you can take that information.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, and that's what I mean. I don't know of anybody else who does that, at all.
Shelly Rosenberg: I've been looking for someone to mentor and honestly, I haven't found anyone. So, I think I'm it and I'm learning on the job, as they say. Learning every day, and you could have five people with autism, and they're all going to present differently and have completely different needs. Some of it is just learning to quickly adapt to whatever the situation calls for, which makes it fun. Each and every client is a new puzzle, and learning how to really listen and go from there.
Michelle Lynne: So for some of the listeners, they might be thinking, well, that's great, I'd love to call Shelly, but my clients are gonna like her more than me. And they're gonna want to hire her. Because, unfortunately, there's a mindset of scarcity so often. For those individuals who are like, oh, sweet, Shelly would be a great tool, well, kudos to you guys for that, but talk to the individuals who are threatened by your expertise.
Shelly Rosenberg: Yeah, I think that there are designers who keep their sources close to the vest, and they want to maintain an image that's cohesive, that they are the figurehead of the business, and that they're the face. I understand that. And I think it's not wrong, it's just one way of looking at the way you want your business to flow.
I have private consultations, a private Zoom or some type of virtual consultation, that I can do with a designer where I can really give them answers. And then they can take that information back to their team and use, and look like rock stars to their own clients. The client never has to know where that information came from. I'm just like a private resource library.
Michelle Lynne: That's a great way to look at it! But on the other hand, you wouldn't hesitate to show up on site, walk through, and get that information and just be an expert in that particular field.
Shelly Rosenberg: Oh, I would love it! And you know, I think it is important to know where your strengths are to soar with your strengths. I've had 20 years to do whole home projects if that's what I really wanted to do. But honestly, what I love are the smaller projects. I mean, I'm still parenting a son with down syndrome, who is 9. My plate is full.
I'd love to really only focus on sensory rooms, play rooms, and maybe children's bedrooms. I'm not looking to take over somebody else's whole house job. I want to get in do what I do best, make a difference for that family, and then move on to the next one.
Michelle Lynne: I love that. Yeah, and just for the record, I am a big advocate of community over competition. So, I just think that there's so much business for all of us and not to be threatened by individuals who can help elevate the solutions that we provide.
Shelly Rosenberg: That's right. I'm working on a kitchen now, and you think you know the basics that go into a kitchen as a designer. I tell you what, as I'm starting to talk to kitchen designers, wow, they're blowing my mind on so many things that I really hadn't considered.
Michelle Lynne: And on the other hand, if the client hires me, and I need your help, the client is loyal to me because they know and trust me and my team. You're just an additional individual, as a tool, to come in, that's already known and trusted.
Shelly Rosenberg: Absolutely.
Michelle Lynne: And if the client is going to be swept off their feet by just a quick visit, then they're not good clients to begin with.
Shelly Rosenberg: Yeah, I would agree with that. Absolutely.
Michelle Lynne: So, what types of things go into some solutions? What would be some examples? My first perception was just making things ABA compliant, you know.
Shelly Rosenberg: Right. That's what most people assume.
Michelle Lynne: But, then I saw your house at Kips Bay, which was beautiful, and I thought, holy cow, look at how well this is married. The design was stunning, but then it's also very functional. What are some of the nuances that you bring?
Shelly Rosenberg: Thank you. Great question. With the Kips Bay space, it was really about taking someone that was not mobile or verbal, and empowering them through design, to be as autonomous and independent as possible through smart home technology, which is just super cool. That was a really neat experience.
But in someone's typical residence, we are consistently bombarded, all of us, with constant stimuli. And when you have sensory integration issues, some people need more stimulation and some people need less. There are constant stimuli, like I said, that are bombarding us. Sometimes you'll have a child melting down, and we're assuming it's a behavioral thing, or they're hungry, but there's so many other senses that are on high alert that we may not realize.
So, I'll go in and look at the lighting. A lot of times lighting is consistently irritating the nervous system, whether we realize it or not. If the lighting is fluorescent, if there's a flicker, if there's a humming sound within the light fixture itself, or if the light is too blue, and not warm enough like full spectrum light, simply changing lightbulbs can send a really big difference with the way these children or people operate in their space.
And then you compound that with what might be in the air that could be irritating nasal passages. Certain people are very sensitive to smells. Imagine how many smells you have at the end of the day when your family all comes home from being at school or at work, you might have all kinds of cooking smells, banging of pots and pans, washer and dryer might be going, the TV might be on in the background.
Michelle Lynne: Oh girl, that just stresses me out.
Shelly Rosenberg: Right? Just thinking about all of that. We're so used to a big, full loud cacophony. Not everybody can deal with that. So I think sometimes it's just going back to the basics and really looking at what simply is going on in your household and how your child can best be supported during all of that commotion.
Michelle Lynne: So I've got a three and a half year old, and I just think about how stimulated we all are. And without any sort of disability, or without any sort of reactionary aspect of it, just the day-to-day is so loud.
Shelly Rosenberg: Honestly, it sounds so simple. But just coming home and lowering the lighting, thinking about what noises are happening, making sure that the air or the water, all these things are cleaned up and leveled out, can make a huge difference.
There's also other senses besides just our five. There's the proprioceptive system, the vestibular, and the thermoception, which is whether we're experiencing pain or discomfort inside our bodies, whether the room is too hot or too cold, and that's creating issues. There's all kinds of nuances that you can look at that really do help overall, create either a supportive home or one that is causing stress.
Michelle Lynne: So what you just said, I can totally picture. You were just talking about light. In my kitchen, I have the certain lights that I like to have on because it calms me. My husband goes in and turns them all on, and I walk in and I turn them down. I'm just like, I can't take all of this stimulation. So the things that are just a natural instinct for so many of us, you've really broken down and put a lot of thought into it.
Shelly Rosenberg: Absolutely.
Michelle Lynne: I mean, that's such a special, special niche that you have.
Shelly Rosenberg: It's really fun. I mean, when you look at Arianna Huffington, who did the book on sleep, yes, at first blush. You're like, everyone knows, duh, that sleep is important. But she really goes into why when we don't sleep well. And so all of these sensory design components go into whether we're sleeping, which makes a difference on whether our immune systems are strong or not, which then makes a difference on how well we are and how long we live.
I mean, so you could in essence, jump to an educated conclusion that if your sensory design is supporting you in a way that makes you healthier, then it's actually giving you a better, longer life. I mean, that's unbelievable.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, and it's just one of those things that we kind of take for granted in our day to day. You were posed with three children that made you think about things differently.
Shelly Rosenberg: Yes.
Michelle Lynne: And you just said three words that I had no clue what they were. I'm like, okay, there's a lot more that goes with this.
Shelly Rosenberg: You know, it's a rabbit hole. I really love the nerdy science behind this and that's what's so exciting and what I want to share with other designers. We have tremendous impact on people's health and well being, maybe even more than health practitioners. That is not a quote that I came up with. We're in our environments 90% of the time at this point. Interior designers, architects, builders, and developers have almost more influence on health and well being than medical practitioners do.
These things are really important and they're exciting. One thing I do want to point out is, if I said, do you know there's toxins in your water, your air, and in your furniture, I wouldn't want to scare anyone. We're all stressed enough and we all have a lot on our plate. I go about this in a very soft, empowering way. These are self care tools. I don't do them all at once. You can take baby steps to start to improve your environment. I don't want anyone to feel like these are just more things I have to do.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, so true. That's a very empathetic aspect that I think you bring to the table. In addition to the off gassing and the toxins that are inherent in some of the production, it reminds me of when I first started learning about the differences between organic food versus non organic and the Dirty Dozen versus some of the other things.
Shelly Rosenberg: Exactly!
Michelle Lynne: This is a whole different conversation, but it also includes GMOs and so forth. It's the same thing, but it has to do with your surroundings and with your physical environment. So we can make those decisions knowing that they exist. Now I know organic, right? Whenever I can, it's grass fed beef and la, la, la. Now that we have this new perspective for our environments, we can make better decisions. It doesn't have to be overnight, you don't have to throw everything out.
Shelly Rosenberg: That's exactly right. And I understand why a lot of designers would close their ears when you start talking about having to use organic fabrics. Well, if you look out there and see what is available, a lot of the most beautiful things and the most fun things that designers have readily accessible are not organic. They do have toxins associated with them and we can't change that overnight.
Even I was thinking, oh, does going "low-tox" or more conscious in an environment narrow down my choices to the point where design is not even fun anymore? I mean, that's not cool. But I'm finding out that there's new things happening with technology. Sherwin Williams is doing a paint now, and I don't know the science behind it and how it works, but they say that this paint absorbs VOCs in the air. Then you don't have to worry about the VOCs you're bringing in if this paint is helping remove it from your atmosphere.
Same thing with air purifiers. There's all kinds of new things happening. For example, in my home now, here in Dallas, I have a whole home water filtration system. So not only is the water that I'm drinking cleaner, but when you're in a hot bathtub, just think about it, all your pores open up, and you're soaking in whatever water is containing in that environment. So for just a few dollars a day, all the water that comes in my home now is pre cleaned. There's so many exciting things that you can do now.
Michelle Lynne: These are the things that you've experienced and explored that, now, you can bring to other designers so that we don't have to go recreate the wheel.
Shelly Rosenberg: That's right.
Michelle Lynne: Now, how would you help individuals outside of the Dallas area?
Shelly Rosenberg: I am trying to put together some ebooks and some live link lists with products that I love and have used and feel confident in. Also, I have a virtual consultation where, just like you and I are doing today, I can really sit and talk with somebody about what's going on in their life. What are their pain points? Where do we want to start? And how do we feel that we can improve?
I can't always solve a lot of these issues, but every once in a while I'll say to a client, to a mom that's frustrated or upset, what if we could improve your situation by 25%? They're like, are you kidding? 10%. Just give me some kind of guidance and help and let's work towards some solutions. If that's enough, then let's go.
Michelle Lynne: I'm thinking, I would totally feel comfortable if I had a client, and she's sitting on the zoom with you and with me, and just start collaborating on different ideas. You've already walked that path and experienced it. I think that that is such a value.
Y'all that are listening, we're gonna have Shelly's information in the show notes. You need to reach out to her if you have any clients that have some sort of, well, how would you describe it, Shelly?
Shelly Rosenberg: Well, honestly, psychological or physical disability is really where my hotspot is. However, what I've noticed is when you are consciously designing for anyone that has extra issues, of course, everybody in the family will benefit. There are also plenty of neurotypical people out there that have high anxiety or stress or trauma in their background. They can benefit as well.
In trying to gain more knowledge, most of my certifications are for people aging in place. There isn't even a certification out there to help children with disabilities. I'm literally making this up as I go on evidence-based information that I'm gathering myself. But a lot of this does bleed over into adults that are aging. As you know, they do regress and become a little more childlike or more sensitive, and honestly, they do become disabled. Their hearing, their sight, their balance, all of those things start to regress. A lot of what I do, really does help older adults as well.
Michelle Lynne: That makes sense. That's a whole different twist.
Shelly Rosenberg: It is. And a lot more designers, I think, are used to hearing about certified aging in place.
Michelle Lynne: Absolutely.
Shelly Rosenberg: We know that as designers, we're a luxury business and we depend on a certain amount of discretionary income. That older population is a great target market for us. I've been re-evaluating my father-in-law's house. He's 88, he wants to stay in his home, but he's starting to need some things. The lighting has to be different for him, the way the stove operates, we're having to put in some safety controls, some cameras, and the temperature has to be different. He's going through a phase in his life that feels similar to what I have to do for my son with Down syndrome.
Michelle Lynne: Right. The correlations are endless.
Shelly Rosenberg: True. Basically, this is propelling and improving human life, regardless of what age or what stage. It's just a little bit deeper, and a more conscious way of looking at our environment over and above just making it beautiful or physically functioning for a wheelchair, for example.
Michelle Lynne: Well, one of my questions was going to be, why is your niche important? But I think that we've really covered that in a variety of different directions and I'm so intrigued. I'm glad you're here in Dallas. We're gonna go have coffee or drinks soon.
Shelly Rosenberg: One thing that really helped me solidify this decision, was doing a keynote for Designers Today a few years back, and then also doing this Kips Bay experience. Every single guest that walks through my space at Kips Bay, wanted to share with me a story about a cousin, a grandfather, an Aunt, or a sister that was blind when she was born. Everyone can relate to loving and wanting to help someone that needs a little extra in their lives.
They just kept saying to keep doing this and that they never thought about this or that, and that it feels so good to have this acknowledged and to really talk about this. We're all going to be disabled at some point. This is something that crosses all races, creeds, and religions. It's people with disabilities that are the largest minority in the world. So, I think at some point, it'll be time to talk about diversity. Again, the original ADA compliant laws are a great step in the right direction, but it's not near what needs to happen.
Michelle Lynne: Right. We've definitely advanced. So you took your interior design business, just a standard practice, and pivoted to really niche down on this. You actually created a separate business for this.
Shelly Rosenberg: I did.
Michelle Lynne: What would you say to somebody who's considering it? Maybe it's not with a passion of disabilities, but it's something else that is still very specific.
Shelly Rosenberg: I think it is such an amazing and super smart way to go. If you've gone through a really rough divorce and had a hard time untangling your belongings, I mean, you could still have your traditional business, but maybe have a side hustle where you work with men who are newly divorced and have nothing and are starting fresh. Or even a woman that's trying to reestablish her independence. Maybe you work with people who have parents with dementia because you just went through 10 years of taking care of a father or mother.
I really do think you can take a life experience, or a passion, or just something you're super excited about, and create a niche. If you love cosmetics and makeup, but you do interior design, why don't you focus on spas and makeup boutiques. If you're interested in something, I do think you can meld it, and then your passion really comes through. Those differentiators, marketing 101, is what sets you apart and what makes you different.
Michelle Lynne: Right. And I think that what you're doing right now has a scientific background and is such a necessity, that it adds more credibility to the industry. For those of us who are just fluffy, and I say fluffy respectfully, (y'all, don't message me, because I'm in the trenches with y'all), there is a lot of technical aspects that goes into the design if we're talking about kitchens, baths, and so forth.
But what you do, Shelly, is scientific and interesting, and a completely different nuance that brings a level of credibility and expertise to the industry. God bless you. This is fabulous. I want more people to hear about this from you.
Shelly Rosenberg: I honestly can't take all the credit. There's so many people out there on the outsides that are really talking about these things. I just happen to be an early adopter. I hope other designers, architects, and builders will really start looking at how incredibly important our industry is to the world and its advancement, its development, our safety, and our health and well being as we move forward.
That's super exciting to me. I do think we, at least interior designers and decorators, are considered really artsy. We bring a pleasure principle to life, but it sort of begins and ends there. Beauty and pleasure.
There's just so much more and I think it will give our industry some real chutzpah to really say that we're doing some really important things here, and here is the medical background, here are the white papers, and here's the evidence based research that backs it up.
Michelle Lynne: Absolutely. And then you can charge a pretty penny for it right?
Shelly Rosenberg: That's right. We deserve what we're worth. And we are taken more seriously as a consultant in living your best life.
Michelle Lynne: I love that. I absolutely love that. That's a whole different direction of the business of interior design. I'm really glad we had the opportunity to have this conversation because I've just learned a whole new direction to explore and to introduce to others. So as often as possible, we need to connect so that we can share this with more people.
Shelly Rosenberg: That'd be an honor. I thank you so much. I've loved being here with you today.
Michelle Lynne: Oh my gosh. It's so funny just how social media connects people. And then you finally get a chance to talk to them and it's like oh, I just want to give you a hug through the screen.
Shelly Rosenberg: Absolutely. I love love, love collaborating. And my hope is that designers really embrace that we really start helping each other because there's plenty of room, there's so much work for all of us.
Michelle Lynne: Oh my gosh, I'm already thinking about how I can get you plugged into some of my programs and stuff like that. So we'll talk about that offline.
But in the meantime, because I could talk about this until we're both blue in the face. It's time for a rapid fire. This is just a little segment that lets our audience get to know you a little bit better. And you've listened to some of the podcasts so you know what's coming.
Shelly Rosenberg: I have! And I thought I'm gonna freeze. Well, I won't manifest that. I've got answers. Let's go.
Michelle Lynne: Here's an easy one. Are you left handed or right handed?
Shelly Rosenberg: Right.
Michelle Lynne: There you go. See? You're doing great.
Do you drink coffee or tea?
Shelly Rosenberg: Coffee.
Michelle Lynne: How many siblings do you have?
Shelly Rosenberg: I have one brother. Younger.
Michelle Lynne: Do you have a consistent morning routine?
Shelly Rosenberg: I do not. And that is one of the only intentions I set for myself for New Years. It's to create some systems where I show up for myself.
And so actually, the last few nights, my phone has stayed in the bathroom. It's not been by my bed. I've been trying to wake up in the morning and do something else for an hour, whether it's stretching, reading, meditating, before I pick up that phone.
Michelle Lynne: That is that is so important. I'm a huge advocate of that. Can't say I'm always good at it. I'm going to go down a bunny trail just briefly. I've been doing biofeedback with an individual, and she was telling me that you shouldn't sleep with your phone within six feet of your head because of the energy that comes out of it and so forth, and I was like, Okay, well, see you later.
Shelly Rosenberg: And you know, we've been talking about, you know, air and water and all of this. Well, I just reconnected with someone new that has her degree now in building biology, and she is specializing in the radiation that she says is present with all of these amazing games, phones, all these technological, amazing things we have in our homes.
Over the last few decades, the radiation inside homes has become greater and greater. And of course, I've never even heard of that. It was completely invisible to me. Then she started explaining and I was like, well, there you go.
That's just one more thing for me to now educate my clients on. It's important to really know, just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it's not affecting you.
Michelle Lynne: Well, that and don't live in fear, y'all. It's just a matter of educating yourself as to what's important to you.
So, okay, getting back on track.
What did you want to be when you were growing up?
Shelly Rosenberg: A writer or an actress.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, so you do have that creative side.
Shelly Rosenberg: Absolutely.
Michelle Lynne: What genre of music do you listen to?
Shelly Rosenberg: Oh, all. I mean, music just feeds my soul. Depends on what mood I'm in.
Michelle Lynne: There you go. And it totally depends on the mood because it can create a mood.
Are you an introvert or an extrovert?
Shelly Rosenberg: I'd say somewhere in the middle and leaning towards introvert.
Michelle Lynne: And if you could have one superpower, what would it be?
Shelly Rosenberg: Oh, I just wish I had like a calming presence that anybody I'm with just could take a breath and would just be like, oh, you know, just slow down. Take a breath.
Tranquility superpower.
Michelle Lynne: I love that. I love that. And I do think that you do have that effect.
Shelly Rosenberg: I hope so. I think we're our best selves when we can just take a breath, feel seen, feel heard. Just take a moment, you know.
Michelle Lynne: Very cool. All right. Last one.
If you could have dinner with anybody, past or present, who would you invite?
Shelly Rosenberg: Oh, goodness. That's a really tough one.
Maybe Eunice Shriver. She started Special Olympics. I'd love to know how she took a seed like that and grew it into something that is world renowned and so supportive and amazingly empowering to people with a disability. I'd like to do something like that and leave a legacy behind.
Michelle Lynne: That would be a good conversation. I'd like to be a fly on the wall. Well, Shelly, thank you so much for being here. I know our audience has loved everything you've shared.
How can they find you?
Shelly Rosenberg: My website is acornandoak.com. I have all my information there. On Instagram, I have two feeds actually, @ShellyRosenberg, or @acornandoakbyShellyRosenberg. I'd love to see you there.
Michelle Lynne: Love that. And I will make sure that all of that information is in our show notes.
For those of you who can benefit from even more resources surrounding the business of running your interior design business, join the growing community on Facebook, Interior Designers Business Launchpad.
I know it's Facebook, you might not like it, but it's the best place for a private group. And here's something funny. If you don't want to be on Facebook, you can just create a ninja profile and just come on in and hang out with the crew.
And don't forget, wherever you're listening to this podcast, please leave a review. Thank you, Shelly.
Shelly Rosenberg: Thank you.
