Transcript
Michelle: Welcome back everybody. Welcome to the podcast Designed for the Creative Mind. It is a business podcast for interior designers and creatives. Super excited. You're here today. We have Jennifer Nash as my guest. She is the CEO of Arc and Brook PR, which is an integrated digital agency.
And she actually has a passion for helping female entrepreneurs become more visible as credible experts with authority in their fields, using PR different publicity tools, such as earned media, press coverage. It's basically doing enhance the visibility as credible experts with. Authority so that they are, we can all just increase our revenue.
Why not 10 X it just through, through the visibility, and the credibility. And I am so excited, Jennifer. Thanks for being here.
Jennifer Nash: Thank you so much, Michelle, for that amazing introduction.
Michelle: There's so much more I could say, but that would take up the 30 minutes that we have. Jennifer Nash is a badass.
Thank you for being here. I'm super excited about it. Let's start Jennifer, by talking a little bit about how you got started in this business.
Jennifer Nash: Yeah, like how, I'm glad you ask that question, Michelle. Because it's really what I do now. It's what started it all. It's, that's a backdrop to what I do now.
So growing up I always grew up as the black sheep of the family, the black sheep of my friends, the black sheep of every community or group that I was in either I was too dark-skinned either. I was not the right shape of my body shape or different reasons because I was also the middle child.
So when it came to my parents, I was not young enough to be tired. And I was not old enough because I wasn't the firstborn. So the middle child syndrome, all of those, all of that added onto my personality. And then it added on to the challenges I lived as I was growing up. And then, of course, I've got this bigger-than-life personality where I speak my truth.
I always have an opinion about something. So when it came to boys, the way, like I grew up in that in a country where women or girls are supposed to be not heard. And so if I spoke out in a place of work, it's still happening right now, right? Yeah. In places of work in boardrooms, in, in places of work, I've always spoken out of turn and I'm more, I'm using quotation marks right now.
And the reason why they labeled that as out of turn, because I spoke where women were supposed to be, just seems not heard. I had enough of that patriarchal society. I had enough of authority as well, telling me my place needed to was to be silent as a child, not to be heard, but just to be seen.
And so on and so forth in my groups of friends, I was too dark-skinned. I needed to bleach my skin in order for me to fit in because I was such a chocolate brown girl like that. So I said, enough is enough. Okay. I am going to create. Fast forward into my future. I said I'm going to create a PR agency that is just meant for representing the underrepresented and often marginalized in our society so that they can be.
Known and trusted as experts in their field. Of course, this came from cause I had something to say and nobody wanted to listen to me. I wasn't good enough for them. Yeah. So that's how it started.
Michelle: I love the fact that one is, and I can understand. I was raised the same way. Be seen, not heard, sit there and look pretty like whatever.
That's just stupid. So I can relate to some of that. I can't relate to, the differences in skin color and so forth. And I think that just, that's so stupid and it sucks so good for you for just standing up for yourself and everybody else who's, suffered in a similar manner to say, screw this, I'm going to do it myself.
And I'm going to create this platform. So tell us let's talk a little bit about that platform. Cause I know I've got a variety of different questions and so forth, but the fun thing about this podcast is that we can go in so many different directions and I want to hear, so what platform have you created in order to lift the under-representative the marginalized.
Jennifer Nash: So in all of that being underrepresented and marginalized, it established that female entrepreneur, especially when the ones, female entrepreneurs and people of color are the people that. Often marginalized and left out.
And obviously, as a PR professional myself we will also match their eyes just by gender. I find that in the PR industry people that I normally in the C-suite positions are usually men up until now. We are still fighting that demon. But I also, when I finally got into uni and actually did my PR and advertising degree, I was a senior. I was a mature student and uni.
So I went to school and that was a much more student because I was already 48 years old. When I went back to uni. Because I decided, even though I had a background and experienced background of about 15 years in public relations, but of course, fast forward to 2017, the digital PR started becoming a thing.
And social media became one of those things that we needed to adopt too because social media no longer became as you read from my introduction, it was no longer any media for menstrual being on television and radio alone. In public relations, we had to add the painting aspect of it. So paid and social media is one of those meaning that you pay to be seen, you pay to be heard, you pay to be visible.
And it's like a slim, there's a blurred line between paint PR and advertising. And I go ahead and explain what that means. And there are two forms of that. There's native advertising and. And media, which I will explain for your viewers in a moment. So the bottom line is that because of the backdrop of being marginalized, because of age being discriminated against because of race and age, I decided, okay, I will have to create my own PR agency that is going to have its own platforms, which is not dependent on the mainstream media or their status.
So I wanted to challenge that status score by creating my own planet. Upon week I can help female entrepreneurs get more visible, easier without having to queue up for that long queue that might not even notice them. The Forbes of this world, the entrepreneurial, this world, financial times, it's a hard grind to get into those platforms.
Those publications, that's a hard nut to crack. If at Berkeley. So I created two platforms. I created the first one, which is the magazine. What lighting to my entrepreneurial was their thought leadership expertise. So that they can be seen and heard as totally theirs in the magazine. They can write thought leadership articles to give tips in their areas of expertise in their industry and whatever.
I'd help them use the written word to command authority as experts in whatever they're doing.
Michelle: So let's talk about that. If our listeners, they're probably mostly interior designers, they wanted to write an article it's published in the spotlight. They can turn around any, use that to present themselves as a trusted authority or expert they've been published.
But if they were trying to get published and, Any, so many other magazines, even like house beautiful or something like that. It's months and months, if not years, if ever, that you're ever exposed.
So I love that Jennifer because it's true. It's just if somebody would recognize my word.
As being a leading authority, it's easier for them to hire me. So I'm showing them that I'm in spotlight magazine, whether it's on, whether I'm just promoting it on Instagram, but also on your website linking through and all of that, that is freaking G.
Jennifer Nash: And yeah, because everybody has to start somewhere and Forbes magazine or entrepreneur, they're going to say to you, where else have you been published?
What are your credentials? So this, what I've created is such as a stepping stone. It's nice where they can start from. It's not a million readership platform readership, which is great enough for them to use it as bragging rights on their website and stuff like that.
And it's a great stepping stone, but it also my platform is not just for them to write, but I'm also teaching them how to use that voice with authority, but practicing run so that when they get invited to Forbes magazine, they've already ended the game, that experience of how to write like. Oh, very good.
You're not just accepting their articles, but you are walking them through how to give themselves that credibility.
Michelle: How do you use the tool in order to maximize it and potentially the result?
Jennifer Nash: Exactly. So that's genius. So I have it in three, four months. I can, they can submit to me one has an authentic story and authentic story that is talking about kind of the way I started this conversation with you.
I tell someone about my background, my story, what is my story? What is my why? And then how you became what you are as an expert. And then you close that. With a call to action as why you are the present client, right? That is story storytelling.
Number one, storytelling. Number two, I could do it also in a Q and a, I could write up some, say a questionnaire, which they can answer and to guide them how to answer those questions for those that are less confident in telling their own stories from.
And then finally, I could also do it as an opinion, editorial. So I can say to them you are in this industry and you're working as a creative designer. What is your opinion these days? What is going on in your industry? What can you tell us what is going on and to give five? To our readers of how they need to do ABCD.
Let's say the topic would be working from home, right? How can they turn their work from home to become more productive, creative? You can do it that way.
Michelle: Three very distinct approaches that I know that I've read in a variety of different magazines, but never really pinpointed the nuances of each style.
Yeah, and behind it, but also there's the fourth one, the fourth state of how to write for a public publication like spotlight magazine is what I called native advertising. And I promise you that I'll let you, your listeners know what that is. Native advertising pretty much means that it's, it sounds like you're just writing about tips and tricks about how to design a space and stuff like that.
But the fact that it's something that you've paid. It's just that one whole big commission that comes in the form of an article that I can totally picture that because I did that. It was an advertorial.
Michelle: Okay. Native advertising. It's the same thing, actually. So I never knew that those were the same interchangeable terms.
Jennifer Nash: Yeah. Yep. So you could do that and then you have a spread, you've got a whole spread with your products being showcased and stuff like that way as well.
Michelle: That, that makes perfect sense. It's interesting how things tend to come full circle.
Jennifer Nash: Yeah.
Michelle: So what, so for somebody who is, because what you're describing.
Of my listeners are going to be women who are, I dunno, they could be anywhere from just graduating college, all the way up to like your journey started when you were mature. My journey started when I was mature. I started my business at 37. It was the year I got married left corporate two years later and it's just, I think it's.
Familiar with a lot of people. How would you suggest individuals approach their PR? What's the difference between PR and marketing in that respect for an individual who just needs to get their name out there.
Jennifer Nash: The, for starters, it's a no-brainer. Be a guest on people's podcasts.
That's public relations, that right there that's the most active, but also the easiest route to getting and media is to identify a podcast that aligns with your band. It's aligned with your voice. It aligns with the. That's point number one, you
Michelle: And I, if you're like a green interior designer, it doesn't have to be necessarily an interior design podcast, but it could be something about, the earth and green and recycling and all of that other stuff.
Jennifer Nash: Yeah, exactly. And also maybe the other thing I could just add on to that, let's say the audience of that particular podcast aligns with your ideal client avatar. So that's another reason why you'd want to be on that particular podcast at the end of the day. It's not just about what you can get out of that era is about establishing yourself as publishing your name and establishing your name yourself as a thought leader in your industry.
It doesn't matter whether that podcast aligns exactly with your brand, but what matters is that you're being visible when, or you're being visible in an audio form. I told you being visible in a vigil so much so being visible and you're putting yourself out there.
Michelle: Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. And then you can again, use that to market yourself.
Jennifer Nash: Great. So the main distinction between PR and marketing is the main body under which advertising and public relations for under a lot of people don't understand that marketing is the mother of everything.
It's a mother of communications, marketing and communication. And a which public relations and advertising for. So you can have a marketing communication and integrated marketing communication campaign, which will involve business development. It will involve advertisement and it will involve PR that being said advertising is paid for much of marketing.
Yeah. As the end for much of marketing, meaning that you've just, and the visibility you've mentioned, you haven't had to pay for it. And then of course there's the communication aspect of it, the copywriting and all of that stuff, which you have to pay for. So we've got the framework.
So there you go. I like that because that will help your re your viewer, your listeners. Remember that word? I like when you do word association. So when association Mexican currency.
Michelle: Okay. So this is like the pace of the D the Mexican dollar. That's a great acronym.
Jennifer Nash: I love that because that word association you've just said it will be great for your listeners to remember they, the framework Passau because now associated to the Mexican currency. I always encourage people and listeners to always use.
What is the association to something that is easy for them to remember? Yeah. So as I was saying, let me explain what pestle means in its entirety. So paid people paid it just means that you're going to pay like we just talked about Michelle and I talked about the native advertising or advertorials that means, again, paying per placement.
And then, and of course, it's the one that, where you get featured without you having paid, depending for it. You've earned it to mainstream media. You've got an advent of, sorry, you've got an interview. You are on the podcast. You've earned all of that media. And then there's the shed. Chad is very similar to to end in that.
You may be let's say a journalist on social media ha notices what you're doing and get quickly share your posts with their network. So you've ironed that you haven't earned it on now a media vehicle, but you've owned it. You've got to share on social media. Rather than a traditional media vehicle, like BBC, like CNN, right?
You've got it on social media, on Twitter and then last but not least is the so owned is like you say it yourself early on Michelle, you talked about, you can share this on the website. So you take that clip from the publication. You go and put it on your website, which. You all need it because you've paid for it.
And you put whatever it is that they clippings gotten from a publication, you've put them on your own platform, which is a website in this case. That means now you're using the entire. To again, visibility for your publicity.
Michelle: It makes sense. Absolutely. That's just, it's working intelligently with the material that you have and as efficiently and effectively as possible.
So when do we need to enlist somebody to represent us to get that PR because you're talking about some of it's earned. And yeah, there is times when it just falls in your lap, but how do you get out there? Do you need to hire somebody for PR?
Jennifer Nash: Not all the time, and I'll be honest with you much as I would like to say, Hey, you need a publicist.
That's not true. You can get, you can become your own publicist. There are so many people. Each that, and even myself, I do teach how you can earn your own publicity with my one too many clients. But the secret in that does not point to number one, BS, get involved and start following journalists that are writing articles about the industry that you work in or you're interested in.
So the best platform to do that is. Okay. And I'll give your audience a Twitter handle. That is the best one to use. If you want to be to, to pitch yourself a publicist, use this handle its hashtag Capitol edge capital, a capital R capital. Help a reporter out, that's it? Just use that to search for the reporters that are looking for help.
Mind you reporters are also generally, it's also people that are looking for content just like you and I. Oh my gosh. They're going to help them out. They'll give you and media in return, that's it? And
Michelle: I think that's important. So we so designers, if you're listening here, our first platform that we go to is Instagram because of all the pretty pictures.
What Jennifer just said is that we're going to have to get a little bit out of our comfort zone and go into Twitter, which is where the journalists and the reporters are hanging out and approach them through an area that you might not be as comfortable in, but you have to go where your audience.
Jennifer Nash: you have to go to where you report your audience is on Instagram to be seen by an audience that is not already seen you. You want to, do you want to be seen in mainstream media? Do you want to be seen in mainstream media then head onto Twitter so that they can report about you in national television radio and publications?
Because that makes perfect sense. Yeah. You've got it sorted on Twitter, on Instagram. You're training your heart. You're amazing. But what about all these other verticals where you have not been heard and seen yet?
Michelle: Yes, exactly. And you're widening your net. Exactly. I love that. Gosh, I could talk about all this for so long.
Jennifer Nash: I love talking to the business. What is your thinking? What is your thinking about what to ask of Twitter and getting into mainstream media and being in business, being seen on TV? Cause you'll be like saying, oh yeah, but I'm on Instagram and I'm more popular and I'm training and I've got 10,000 followers.
Let me ask your listeners this. How much money have you made from the 10,000 followers? Okay. Then it says. You've gained a lot of likes and follows and engagement and all of that. That's all well and good for visibility, but popularity does not pay the bills. This is where my introduction comes in.
Yeah, how you can, 10 X your revenue is only by being in mainstream media, in being in a magazine like sport, like a magazine, winning an award like the globe, like night vision. And I'll tell you why the reason why you 10 X your income is because just one chance of being seen. On Forbes magazine or CNN or BBC, or that you have a higher visibility and probability chance of being hired by a corporation.
And the corporation does not pay dimes and say, All right. A corporation will pay you in the region of six to seven figures for one contract, right? Chances are that. If you've been doing one-on-one on Facebook, you've been teaching people, whatever, working with people, one on one clients, they're paying you a thousand dollars a month.
Your time and blah, blah, blah. Whereas a contractor, a corporation to do a whole project for six to eight months, and they will pay you in the region of $20,000 for that one off-contract.
Michelle: That, and translating that to interior designers who are working, let's just say residential because we have the commercial designers and yeah.
The publicity would very much benefit the commercial-specific designers, because then you could get a larger name company calling you, but also if you're doing residential. You're still going to get that level of credibility and clientele. That's going to be elevated in order to pay the design fees and the and the budgets that we all love and dream about the work across the board.
Regardless of who your end-user is as a designer, or even as a creative, just in general, whether you're an architect or an artist or a landscape or whatever, that's going to really elevate you in the eyes of your audience.
Jennifer Nash: That's correct Michelle, but also to add onto what you're just saying, residential.
They are. Okay. Because the people watch get this people don't actually realize this. They're watching the news or reading Forbes magazine, C-suite executive CEO of . Hell yeah. He was doing good budgets. You're going to want to hire you as an interior designer to them. to their houses, residential businesses.
He'll be like, Hey darling, I just heard you telling you were upset about that designer that you had. I was watching Bloomberg and this interior designer was just interviewed. I think you might want to use that. She sounds really good. You've got an account for a residential that you normally wouldn't access on Instagram CEOs and C-suite executives.
Michelle: Interesting. I love that Jennifer. And for myself, I've never thought about pursuing like Bloomberg or I've been, thankfully I've got a small feature in Forbes, but that was not easy and got paid for. But yeah, that does give you completely differently.
And for those of, for those designers, who've gone through my flagship program, the interior design business bakery y'all can talk to them. Where whatever platform you're on, so that credibility would be there. Now Jennifer changing subjects, just a little bit in the interest of time, you had mentioned your global ignite vision of.
Jennifer Nash: So thank you so much, Michelle, for remembering that, because we can talk until the cows come home about PR form of public relations that I would like to interest and advise your listeners to look into is. Entering a wide so they can be industry awards in your own industry as designers, it can be general entrepreneurial hour-wise, which is where the global ignite vision of what's coming.
So we created the global ignite vision awards as peer-to-peer awards, recognizing as a female. So these judges, female entrepreneurs judges who are thought leaders in their specific industries that recognize this social impact and transformation, every female entrepreneur has the ability to make an or effect change in their own industry in any, in that.
So the global night vision awards, fondly known as the giver. I love that. Which you rated. Yes.
Michelle: Amen to that.
Jennifer Nash: Especially designers be a giver, how the diva for goodness sake. So they were curated to amplify voices. The visibility of the more entrepreneurial is doing businesses, especially online in this dark world, where we're where we are at with Facebook and everything. There's so much noise going on.
So winning a global night vision award in one of the 12 categories set you apart as someone with authority in a category of. They can only be one winner in each category. So I'm already just saying, not everybody gets a trophy. If you win. For example, in the category of the most enterprising entrepreneur or
publication in spotlight magazine, and anywhere else you can put alongside does bragging rights on your website.
Michelle: You knew the publication and spotlight, and then you've got the awards. So even if you don't win it, you're like you're a finalist or something.
You can still promote that. You don't have to be like the person at the very top to have the authority and that credibility, because if you've been nominated or if you're one of the finalists or something along that line, you can still promote that.
Jennifer Nash: Exactly. Exactly.
Michelle: I love that Jennifer because our industry gets so hung up on the industry publications or industry awards.
Jennifer Nash: Yeah, exactly. And then the beauty about how we've the language behind this, our products, what ignite is igniting that spotlighted? Yeah. Igniting your vision that you've had throughout the year. So this is deliberately done at the end of the year.
So it's done in October every year because obviously, we've removed November and December being that with those Thanksgiving. And then December is Christmas. So it's just to ignite that vision in you to help to say, look at you. Well done, Michelle, you've done all this throughout the year. Let's celebrate you.
Let's reward you with an award for everything you've done and then inspire you and spur you on to ignite your vision for the following year.
Michelle: Jennifer, you have just created such a beautiful platform that is inspiring as well as Profitable and credible and just moving things forward.
That's beautiful I'm at a loss for words, but that's a beautiful combination of the two, but that's just such a blessing for women who are we're. We're not the first ones to choose to toot our own horns, but you're giving them permission and encouraging them to, because that is so important.
We sup we toot everybody else's horns, but around them, Yeah, exactly. And then it turns around and it gives you business. It helps you from a business standpoint.
Jennifer Nash: Oh, this is a peer-to-peer. The magazine is peer-to-peer recognition. You're writing written by women for other women, but ignite vision is being given to women by other women.
Michelle: Absolutely. And I think only women understand, the path that we have walked and maybe been pushed down or pushed or whatever. And then, from the standpoint of having some of the more marginalized in there, it really can build that confidence that can take that individual to the next level, because they've never been given permission or accepted for, or promoted or celebrate.
Jennifer Nash: Yeah, let me tell you, can I quickly tell you a testimony, goosebumps? Yeah, exactly. I've had three women, but there are many other women that have cried and bullied and I've not believed they've never been in a magazine before. They've never received an hour before. When I had started having conversations with them the way just in my group in Facebook and whatever, and I handpicked them and I said, you deserve to have an hour.
I've been watching you. I know what you've been doing in your industry and stuff. I had one thoughtfully, the one changemaker and one most innovative entrepreneur. Like I don't even deserve this I said, sit down with me. Let's have, one-to-one what you've done. Only to find this women have been doing so much stuff in the background, hiding their husbands.
I didn't behind the organizations and stuff like that. When I brought it all out, they were like, oh my gosh, I didn't know. And this is what I told them. I said all along, you've been alarmed, shining so bright, but what did you do with that? You put it under the table.
What good is the lamp? A lamp, sorry, not lamp a lamp when you put it under the table and nobody sees the lights for, it needs to sit on top of the table so that it says it's a city on a hill so that people can see what you're capable of doing and how you're transforming.
So that's my pet peeve this imposter syndrome that women have, and this has boosted this person now I'll share with you. So you can put in your show notes. One of the girls literally posted on Facebook yesterday. It's only coming out now. She said I'm tired of saying no, I'm tired of putting myself behind all this confidence came because she won an award.
They give out one of the giveaways as a changemaker. Now she's in the current sport tech magazine of January and so vibrant woman. And I'm like, oh my gosh, how teammate she was when I first met. About eight months ago. Wow. Unbelievable.
Michelle: And I think that we don't necessarily recognize that we don't give ourselves permission.
So when somebody finally does it changes the world. And I love that example of the lamp under the table. And I was looking at my phone when you were talking and I'm just, I think there's a first in the Bible that talks about how. I know Jesus is the light of the world, I don't know I'm losing it.
Y'all, I'm trying my best. But it's true. You have to just at least take that first step and then the next step. And you might not be able to see the entire staircase, but just light up the first one.
Michelle: what a great platform you've started. I can't wait, I can't wait to continue this conversation or see where things go and so forth and wait to have you for the giver awards this year, Michelle.
Jennifer Nash: Yeah, you've been challenged. So you've been challenged because you're doing such amazing work.
Michelle: That's super sweet. And it's so funny because then I climbed back into that modesty pit that I try not to. I try to encourage others to come out of.
Jennifer Nash: So consider yourself being told, being modest and putting others up is my job as a PR consultant, you as Michelle as a badass, fearless female entrepreneurial, doing what you are doing, being given permission.
To claim your bragging rights and your credentials. Thank you. You are no good to anyone. If you hide your credentials.
Michelle: I tell everybody else you, you're a bad-ass you need to do this. You need to do that. But as human nature, sometimes it's female nature.
Sometimes we don't always own our own. And so I personally struggle with it sometimes. So I have to lead by example by getting out of my comfort zone. And not being modest and tooting my own horn and so forth, but y'all, it doesn't come naturally.
Jennifer Nash: doesn't come naturally to you. Bless you.
Michelle: Thank you. Thank you so much. Jennifer, just real quick. We have a fun little segment that is called Q and a rapid-fire. It's just a fun, fun way to wrap up our podcast before we tell everybody how they can find you. And it just gives a little bit more of a personal note to some of our interviews.
Michelle: Let's start, we'll start easy. Are you left-handed or right-handed?
Jennifer Nash: I'm actually I'm ambidextrous.
Michelle: I think my daughter might be ambidextrous she's growing up that way. So we might have to pause this conversation and you can tell me a little bit more about that.
What's your favorite ice cream flavor?
Jennifer Nash: I'm glad you asked me that cream content. What kind of cream? You'll never hear about this. You've got to come to England and tested and have it. It’s clotted cream.
Michelle: Then I probably could answer this question for you. Coffee or tea?
Jennifer Nash: Tea.
Michelle: If you couldn't be in the profession you're in right now, what would you do for a living?
Jennifer Nash: Oh, I know that I was just thinking about it. I'll be honest. I would be an actress.
Michelle: How fun would that be? And you are when you're in business anyway, because you have to take on a certain persona in some instances. All right. What is your favorite form of acts of your favorite form of exercise?
Jennifer Nash: Walking.
Michelle: And what genre of music do you listen to?
Jennifer Nash: christian gospel.
Michelle: And last question is if you could have dinner with anybody past or present, who would you invite?
Jennifer Nash: Denzel Washington.
Because he is humble, but he's also a person who's had the longest marriage in Hollywood. Yeah.
Michelle: That is amazing. Jennifer, thank you so much for being on the show today. Like I have had so much fun getting to know you learning more. Cause I was. I found you through a shared group that we're in and I just love the give up, give, I kept seeing that all over the place.
I'm like, who is this woman? This is amazing. And I know the audience has loved everything you've shared. How can they connect with you? Like where can we find you more of Jennifer now?
Jennifer Nash: Okay, so I'll share with you in the chat, but it's, I am Jennifer Nash.
Michelle: Perfect. And we'll put these in the show notes.
Jennifer Nash: All of this.
Yeah, I am. I am Jen Nash on Instagram. That's the best way to connect with me. I have a challenge for your listeners, the best platform for them to connect. If they want to learn tenants. Kind of income clients. They need to be on LinkedIn. So join me and connect with me on LinkedIn. And if they want to have a chance to just upgrade their LinkedIn profiles, they've never been on LinkedIn.
They're intimidated. They don't know where to start. I am happy to give them a free workshop to do their LinkedIn. Profiles. Oh, fabulous.
Michelle: We can get that, all that information in the show notes. And that is true. So for y'all designers, who probably I'd say, I know a lot of you will not have a LinkedIn profile.
This is where our clients. So the CEO's and yeah, oftentimes it comes through their spouse or something, but to have that visibility is going to be important. So I would recommend taking Jennifer up on, on that offer. So we'll get that information dropped into the show notes. And for those of you who can benefit from even more resources surrounding the business of running your interior design business, join my growing community.
It's in Facebook and yeah, I know it's Facebook. Not all of you love Facebook, but it's a great platform. It's called the interior designers business launchpad. And. For those of you listening to this podcast and you've listened to all the way through. Please drop a review anywhere you're catching this content because it does help us stay relevant.
Jennifer Nash: Thank you so much.
