Michelle Lynne 0:02
Welcome to design for the creative mind, a podcast for interior designers and creative entrepreneurs to run their business with purpose, efficiency and passion. Because, well, every design is different, the process should remain the same. Prepare yourself for some good conversations with amazing guests, a dash of Jesus and a touch of the woowoo and probably a swear word or two. If you're ready to stop trading your time for money and enjoy your interior design business. You are in the right place. I'm your host, Michelle Lynn.
Hello, hello. Hello. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast designed for the creative mind. This is a business podcast for interior designers and creatives, which is perfect because today I'm excited to announce that I have Nancy Gatlin and and COPPA, I probably should have asked if I was pronouncing your name right, Nancy before I introduced you. But Nancy specializes in coaching interior designers and service based entrepreneurs. She can teach you to maximize your profitability and identify and serve your ideal clients with confidence. In effect, Nancy becomes your business partner, she helps you develop the most straightforward path to higher scalability, visibility and profitability through competent decision making efficient systems development and effective communication. So she is like the whole bucket of wonderful. And in addition to all of this, she's also the founding president of the Interior Design Society virtual chapter. She's an executive IDs board member at large. And she was the first recipient of the IDS Outstanding Leadership Award for her 12 years of active participation in national leadership. And her local chapter in Long Island, New York. So can we welcome Nancy Ganzekaufer, if I pronounced your name right. Did I pronounce your last name right?
Nancy Ganzekaufer 2:02
You did Ganzekaufer. It's very phonetic, but it's very scary because it's
Michelle Lynne 2:11
here, oh, my gosh. Yes, it is absolutely, my honor. And I'm going to apologize in advance if I do some silly fan girling. Because your reputation precedes you, Nancy, you have been such a huge impact in the interior design industry or for over a decade. Right?
Nancy Ganzekaufer 2:29
Yeah. Thank you so much, Michelle. Yeah. You just gave me goosebumps because it's truly been my last 25 years being in this industry. And this is not something I ever expected. This really is something that evolved slowly over time, like for so many people, but I was a business woman. I worked in a bank. I was a first vice president. I never even could design anything in my own house. Right? It was like kinda like an old business, what can I sell. And I became an art consultant for and was one for 17 years because my mom was an artist. Oh, so she called me one day after my third son. When my third child was born, my son had to have open heart surgery and quarantine for two years.
Michelle Lynne 3:21
Oh, god bless that little baby. And you that has to be heartbreaking. As a mom,
Nancy Ganzekaufer 3:26
it was really difficult. At that time. third child, I had a four year old, a two year old and a baby that was quarantine and was in the hospital with pneumonia. And I couldn't work at that point. Like I had, wow, full time stay at home. And then when he turned two, and he was no longer quarantine and by the way, he's 22 today in his final year of college amazing.
Unknown Speaker 3:47
So like,
Nancy Ganzekaufer 3:50
well, I like to say that quickly. So people don't go oh my god what happened? You know, thankfully, he's he's an amazing kid along with my other two. But my mother called me at one point when I was like, Huh, what do I do next in my life, right? I was in the corporate world. I loved it. I could go back. But well, I got a taste to be at home. And my kids need me. What do I do now? So my mother calls and says, I'm giving away all my artwork. This is ridiculous. I'm piling it up. I'm like, well, send it to me. Like, let me let me see what I can do with it because she was really a very talented watercolor artist. You must have sent me 200 pieces. Michelle.
Michelle Lynne 4:30
Oh my gosh. So she was stockpiling it. Oh, yeah. Prolific
Nancy Ganzekaufer 4:33
and she was running the art club in her community in Las Vegas where my parents had moved. So I now have 200 pieces of artwork and I'm like, What do I do? So Hallmark parties, and Hallmark parties. Were not making me any money but it was fun.
Michelle Lynne 4:51
There's wine and cheese.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 4:55
Right so wine and cheese and sticky talking all work to people his walls, friends and family and asking them to invite their friends and family. Wow. And it really again, I've worked like 60 to 80 hours a week putting a party together. Anyone who's ever done pampered chef knows what. Yeah, right to put
Michelle Lynne 5:13
in the day, I could completely remember those. Yeah.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 5:16
And I hated those. By the way, I never went to those home parties. I was not even one of those people, yet. Suddenly, I was having them. So working my butt off, doing little cafes, doing street fairs during home parties, making nothing giving my mother a little new lease on life when she was in her 50s, which is now where I am. I can't even believe it. And one day, you're a designer walked into a party. And that changed my entire path. Really? Yeah. And I still remember the designer, and I still see her once in a while. And I thank her, because she said that's the perfect piece of artwork for my clients home. Can you bring it to the house? And I just started saying yes, yes. Then we're at the house. They loved it. We're going to design the whole bathroom around it. By the way, it wasn't my mother's piece. It was a different artists wanted to take on other products, because they found me right. So I was carrying artwork, they would give it to me on consignment for free. I would show it in all these places. And then if I sold it, then I would pay them. So I'm at the person's house with the designer. She's like, can you help us frame and I'm like, absolutely. I don't know anything at that point. I don't know the difference between a watercolor and oil. What needs madding what needs glass like nothing? I have no idea.
Michelle Lynne 6:42
But I had the confidence to just say yes, which is why
Nancy Ganzekaufer 6:46
confidence is the basis of all my coaching, right. And I do very much attract people who are looking for that. I need to be able to charge my worth and run a profitable business, right because of that confidence. So anyway, went to a framer figured it all out had people teach me expressive living, odd framing and later years accessories was born in 17 years after I was working with so many designers, watching them with their clients in the homes, watching The Good, the Bad and the Ugly sometimes. Oh, yeah. And I started having seminars for them in my showroom, which was in my house. And a lot of them were business seminars, because that was my superpower. Absolutely. When I turned 50 I was divorced at that point. Three kids that were now on the cusp of launching with the way they're still on the cusp of
Speaker 1 7:43
them couple of years, though. Yeah. A couple years, they'll be launched, like the pandemic.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 7:48
And I decided, You know what, I need to sell the house. It's too big for me. My kids are moving on. And I didn't want to carry shit around for a living anymore. Because we are not glamorous, dear Lord now. Right? What a sweaty, a heavy carry 500 pieces of artwork in and out of people's homes with matting and framing selected all on premise. Yep, that was Wow, bring it in for framing, bring it back and supervise the installation. And then I expanded my house, I created a whole showroom for accessories. And we did the same thing with the accessories, pack them all up, brought them to people's houses, staged them sold or didn't sell. And then, you know, it was a lot, but for several years, it was a
Michelle Lynne 8:33
lot of just physical labor. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you weren't
Nancy Ganzekaufer 8:38
sure if we missed the point where I was a personal trainer for a couple of years before my youngest was born. So I did switch it up. And I was in great shape. But that's stage of my life.
Michelle Lynne 8:49
You were just lifting different weights? Yes, yeah.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 8:53
Not so much. But hung my shingle as a coach to and transitioned out of expressive living and started coaching interior designers on how they could create profitable business just like you and doesn't it feel so rewarding to do what we
Michelle Lynne 9:08
do? Oh, my gosh, I know, this is exactly where God wants me just to be able to assist women in earning what they're worth, not what they're worth, because, you know, we're all worth a bazillion freakin dollars, because we're made in the image of God. But the services oftentimes are so not valued. And so I love that. So let's I want to talk about your book. So yes, I am very excited to be here. And I'm so excited to talk to you. But also, before we dive into the book, I want to talk about how, you know, in our industry, there's like some secretiveness, some competition and sometimes not like a feeling of scarcity. And I want to just say that, you know, leading by example, as to coaches here, yep. You know, it's important that we all just recognize that there's somebody forever Buddy. And as a coach that I am, I've got my program I just didn't want to once you do your you do your one on ones you do your programs and stuff like that. It's important that people find who they connect with, like, it's 100%. I'm not for everybody. Like, I'm totally not I get that it's the same thing with your clients is that you're not for everybody.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 10:21
Correct? Correct. Lesson 101, right, that not everyone is your client. And for the people who are listening, who are eventually looking for a coach, if ever, you just do have to be attracted to almost like their voice, their style, the way they communicate, and not don't try to force it, because it's never going to work. Just like if you're like dating. Oh, it's exactly like dating. And I know that. Oh, by the way.
Michelle Lynne 10:51
That's a conversation for cocktails. Yeah, yeah. So so let us just lead into this conversation. I want to talk about your book and just other things that are applicable to this industry and what you bring to so many individuals, but just leading by example, that we've got two coaches here that are arm in arm wanting to continue to lift the industry, because one person at a time. Absolutely.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 11:21
And it's going to take all of us to do that. Because this industry really when I came into it, it was a whole different ballgame back then.
Michelle Lynne 11:29
Yeah, I couldn't find anybody to help. That's right. I think it's because nobody knew what the hell they were doing. Correct. So they didn't want to share,
Nancy Ganzekaufer 11:35
right? So there's a whole new education that we're giving the public, as well as giving the designers on what this is worth. And that's been my mission. Since I started like this, these services for the people who are listening are so valuable, and people need them. And you need to be there to be able to serve them, right. So yes,
Michelle Lynne 11:58
yes, yes. Yes, I do, too. So Nancy's book is called respond with confidence. And I got it off of Amazon, like maybe right when it came out. And I'd had the chance to flip through it. And just I'm so excited for you. Congratulations, Nancy. This is a hell of I mean, I can barely get I outsource my blogging because I can barely get a blog done these days. Well, bless you for getting a book done. It was
Nancy Ganzekaufer 12:22
not easy. And about halfway through I was I hired a book coach book writing coach, and halfway through, I went, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't like this is painful. And it's stopping me from doing other things. And I turned into a big baby. And I was like, I'm a talker. I'm not a writer, can I hire a ghostwriter? And he's like, you can, but you're halfway through? Oh, my God, it's so tough. And it's such a simple book, Michelle, it's not a difficult book. It's one of those books that remind you of the things you've learned your whole life. But you sometimes need to go back and remember, and yes, back to basics, right? It's not complicated. But when I get someone who calls me or sends me a DM, I just pulled out your book, because I have a difficult client, and they needed to reread, to walk away, give it 24 hours and come back and reread what I wrote and take emotion and all the you know, angst and upset and then send it and get I thank you for giving that opportunity to them to look back at the book. I thought that's why I did it. Absolutely.
Michelle Lynne 13:28
Just and it's so funny, because one of the things that I marked in your book is, don't assume they're out to get you. And I just see that so often, in so many of our forum conversations on Facebook and whatnot, that, you know, people are pissed off because they're shopping them or they're pissed off, because they're asking for something different or whatever. And oftentimes, it seems like, it's us as designers against the clients. Whereas really, it's just that the clients aren't educated. And that's, that's our own lack of confidence to tell them, here's how it works. And here's our boundaries, and et cetera, et cetera. So I just in regards to what you just said about the email,
Nancy Ganzekaufer 14:11
like they are allowed to ask, uh huh, you just have to answer and take the emotion out of it. And the story we tell ourselves as to what they must be thinking about us how they ask that question, they trying to rip them off, or they think this, what if they just think I want to ask this question, and I needed to answer it. And it's that simple. It's, it's the stories we all tell ourselves that create the drama that
Michelle Lynne 14:45
and they're usually stories, yes, based on our insecurity.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 14:49
Yes, or a story we've heard from someone else that's never happened to us, but yet was somehow applying it to us. Right, instead of staying in our own lane in our own lives and not worrying about it. anybody else and what they've been through?
Michelle Lynne 15:01
That's a great point. Yeah, absolutely. And call me crazy, but my mind reading skills suck. When I assume somebody's doing something, I'm probably like, Yeah, I'm making that shit up.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 15:13
Exactly. Yeah. And it was funny because again, when I first started this book, Why did I start it? It started out as a completely different thing. It started out as a book write a book about my life. My life, like a lot like most people's lives have interesting aspects to it. Right? I've had kids, they will sick that I have one transgender son, I have one gay son, I have a daughter has a travel agent who travels the world like really different phasing. Yeah, you know, going through a divorce and still being very amicable with my ex. So I called the book coach to say, I want to write a book about like this stuff, right? How do you get through all this stuff? And he's like, man, no one really cares about that. Oh, really? Yeah. All right, I guess you're right. He's like, let's take note over the next two weeks of what people call you for primarily, I'm like, well, they call me to ask me how to make more money and how to charge their worth. And he's like, okay, but just note over the next two weeks, over the next two weeks, I was noticing more and more the prevalent conversation was, this client is saying this, what do I say back? My son, Mom, this professor said this, because I wrote this. Now how do I fix it? Right. And my girlfriend, who was a manager in a medical office calls me and says, I have a difficult staff member, she did this, this, and this. And this is what I'm thinking of doing. But I want to check with you first, right? And I started realizing, people were calling me to ask how to respond in business situations. So hence, how it ended up being responded with confidence, the business owners blueprint for handling difficult situations. And then I peppered my stories of my life where I learned lessons related to communication into the book.
Michelle Lynne 17:02
And that makes it all that much more personal. But the stories also make it much more believable. Because you can, you can stand at the top of the mountain and speak to people but when you can tell them that this is a mountain that I climbed, and I'm going to show you how to do it. Yes, the credibility there is just amazing. Let me interrupt myself to take a quick moment to thank satinath Insurance Agency for sponsoring this episode of The designed for the creative mind podcast. Their support and understanding of the interior design, decorating and home staging industries is unrivaled. Satin off understands what our businesses do, and they provide insurance that lets me sleep at night. Yep, this is the firm that I use. And they will do the same for your sleep habits and your business too. They're more than an insurance agency. They're an extension of my business. They take care of the worry because they are the experts, which allows me and my team breathing room to do what we do best design beautiful spaces. You can find their contact information below in the show notes. Give them a call today.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 18:10
And can I tell you one more story because it was really like fast. For me the book starts out telling a story about how when I was an art consultant and interior designer who was really making me jump through hoops getting the right artwork for her own home. It wasn't even for and I don't know how many emails I've six in changing her mind changing her price point changing the style of the art. I was going crazy. So I hit respond and wrote I hit forward to my my assistant at the time and said oh my god, what a pain in the ass. This woman is bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. And I had hit reply instead of forward.
Michelle Lynne 18:50
Oh, it's kind of a monkey. And
Nancy Ganzekaufer 18:53
I stood out my whole family was at I started screaming I'm throwing my computer at my kids because they were young teenager like Jake taken aback. I didn't get the email to come back. Right. So it was no way she had a Blackberry. I ran into my bathroom. You'll read it in the book if you choose to buy it, everyone. But in the end, two months ago, I was hired to speak local at an event for interior designers. And I walked in and everyone was getting a copy of my book, and she was there. Now obviously I didn't name her in the book, but I walked right up to her. I'm like, hey, whatever me and she's like, Yes, I do. Nancy, how are you? Then I'm like, Oh, I'm great. And she was friendly to me. But I said by the way, there's 100 copies of the book in those bags. And when you're reading it, you're the story in the front. Do you remember when and I repeat it and she's like, I tell that story. Often I'm like, oh, yeah, but then you know what she graciously said We've all made mistakes. and it's over. And congratulations on your book. So she was very great. That's
Michelle Lynne 20:04
fantastic. Well, that and it just goes to show that you know what, there's nobody that doesn't make mistakes. So when people are feeling like they're an impostor or that, you know that you've got all your shizzle together, because you look polished on your Instagram. There's all sorts of stories that we all have. And it is truly responding with confidence, because you could have like, not even greeted her. Yes. When he walked into that room. Yes. So that I mean, that would have been the easy way out. My
Nancy Ganzekaufer 20:31
heart was racing, but only imagine. Yeah, and how many years have passed? Oh, my goodness. I mean, that is. So I've been a coach for six years now. And that was probably in my first five years of being an art consultant. So when your heart was still racing, yeah, because you know, it's embarrassing to make a mistake. But the bottom line is, just like I did, when it happens, I faced it, I called her right away, I said, you're gonna open up your email, you're not gonna be happy with what you see. So I'm not gonna ask you to delete it without reading it. But if you decide to read it, my apologies. And then I made my excuses. I'm having a tough night, my kids are sick, bla bla bla, which I don't even remember if they were true or not. And hopefully, you'll still do business with me. And she's like, of course, I will. But no, she never did.
Michelle Lynne 21:19
But on the other hand, that kind of goes back to not every client, it's for you. Because that was kind of a relief not to have to deal with it anymore. It really was a really, yeah, yeah. Well, it's like sometimes getting like so. So that's, that's a great question. So when you get negative feedback from a client, or maybe a client says, I just don't want to work with you anymore. Whatever the case may be, what do you see is the biggest mistake that people make, when they get that feedback?
Nancy Ganzekaufer 21:45
I think they try to hold on too much. I mean, I always say if you're if your business owner has 15 clients pending or in the hopper, or in your pipeline, one client saying I don't think you're the right designer for me, let's say is, is going to not devastate you, you're gonna be like, You know what, you're right. Maybe it's better if you work with someone else. But if you only have one, two or three clients on the docket and hurts, you're suddenly like, Well, what did I do wrong? And and how do I get it back? And how do I save it. And really, sometimes it's not just, it's not about you at all. It's just that it's not a good fit. And in the dating world, you learn quickly to say, I don't think we're a match even though you're a really great person. And yeah, you can learn to say that in your business, and not dwell on it, and feel like a failure, because it's just not meant to be, then we'll take you light years, you know, into the future and advance your business just by getting the confidence not to chase someone who's really not a good fit. And
Michelle Lynne 22:47
you'll have more joy, much more joy because like I look back at the Yahoo's that I dated before I met my husband and I didn't get married till I was 37. So I did a lot of Yahoo's thank God, none of them asked me to marry him. You know, I dodged people, it's there. Because I probably would have said yes, just out of stupid out of ignorance, let's just call it ignorance. So it's like, you can apply that to your clients as well dodge that bullet definite.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 23:13
So the relief, you sleep so much, when you let the client go, that doesn't match your style, or doesn't refuses to go into your well established, well oiled machine of a process, and they are trying to make you change it and you're going, maybe I should to accommodate them, because they are the Kenyan, like, no, that's not a good fit.
Michelle Lynne 23:36
Absolutely, absolutely. So what do you do instead of reacting? So instead of saying, okay, you know, either you get pissed off because they give you the negative feedback, or they tell you that you're not, you guys aren't not a good fit. Or maybe they just give you negative feedback, or something that you take as a critical comment, because you are working with them. You
Nancy Ganzekaufer 23:57
know, it's a matter of people tend to react to meaning right away. They like just oh my god, and they respond, and they start to reel in what I describe in the book as like a tornado. Right? This emotional tornado that spinning, but what I'm jesting in the book as they take time to decompress first, right? We don't have to answer everyone. The minute they message us whether it comes through text or email. It's not you don't have to just because they messaged you doesn't mean you have to say you said to jump I did. Yes,
Michelle Lynne 24:29
Nancy, I had this conversation with somebody on my team yesterday. So whenever this whole podcast comes out, it was just yesterday.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 24:40
Yes, yeah. Yeah, half the time. Take time.
Michelle Lynne 24:44
Do you like step away? And then go back and respond?
Nancy Ganzekaufer 24:48
Yeah, so So basically, what I teach people in the book is to decompress first that could be war, calling your best friend, venting to your dog exercising watching TV. I don't care how you decompress. I give you a bunch of ideas, but you want to decompress first when something upsets you. And even if it's meant to be constructive, and you didn't take it that way to be compressive, you feel you're getting upset. And yes, as women, it tends to happen more than men, but there are men also, and I coach men as well, then really get ramped up quickly. So decompress first and then go to assess the situation. No, make a decision in advance how you want this situation to play out. And then re There you go. Okay, reverse engineer your response.
Michelle Lynne 25:38
Right? It's just kind of like designing a room, you know, what do you want the room to look like? You have to reverse engineer and fit into the budget, the scale the blah, blah, blah, blah, style? Correct?
Nancy Ganzekaufer 25:46
Correct. Because if I want to save this relationship, my response is going to be different than if I want to say goodbye, we're not a match, or whether I want to consciously modify my process, because they brought up a good point. And maybe I did miss communicate something. And I want to modify, what do you want the result to be? And then also in that assess section is assess the previous communications, because when I analyzed how I advise people, one of my steps, which I never ever realized, until this coach pointed out to me was read through the previous communications as if you were the client, or you are the person on the other side, did you actually miss communicate along the way as well? Right. So you want to assess the string of communication of what's has,
Michelle Lynne 26:37
because oftentimes, we take for granted what we do, and don't explain it or educate our clients enough, correct? Like, hey, it was a CLM. It's not my fault law, or whatever. It's like, what the hell is the CLM?
Nancy Ganzekaufer 26:52
Just gonna say, and what's the CLM is going to be the mission, right? And
Michelle Lynne 26:56
so we take for granted because we're in the middle of this industry all the time, or we're in the middle of our processes all the time. Yes, yes. Yeah. You I think it's if you had a chapter on it. Well, one, I love the solution. Focus. You started with Tony Robbins, who's one of my favorites. But Chapter Six is that it all starts with you. And you say, you know, evaluate yourself and reflect on your motivation, because sometimes we just want to be right. Yep. And that isn't necessarily the case. Yeah, assess the outcome, which is what you just said. So yeah, I mean, you've got some amazing nuggets in here, I might have to go buy this for my whole family.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 27:35
It's interesting, because my 25 year old reads it and comes out only like three chapters in and she's like, Ah, okay, mom, like, every one of my friends needs to read this before they enter the workforce. And I'm like, I never even thought of that as a marketing the book in that way. But that's why I do love to hear other people's feedback. I'm going to buy this from my husband, again, TWICE, TWICE, which is so unusual for me. My husband, who hasn't read a book in 30 years, pick the book up, read the whole thing and thought it was amazing. I'm like, okay, one because it's a simple read, which is great.
Michelle Lynne 28:07
Very, it's very simple without being like you're talking down to anybody or remedial. It's still very educational, well, being easy to read. Right.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 28:19
And that was my goal. And when there was a point of, you know, Listen, everyone gets in moments of insecurity, I had plenty of moments of insecurity with this book. I said, I'm like, it's too simple. It's too simple. Everyone's going to like think it's like for kindergarteners, you know, at one point, I was reeling, and somebody said to me, what are your favorite books, and I'm like, business books. The perfect day formula. It's like the simplest book ever. And then I named another one, and another one. And they were all very simple, quick reads that I could gain a quick lessons from that we're easy to understand. And this is so important, also with staff, right. One of the things I love to do the most I've been managing people since I was 24 years old, I love to help people grow teams and manage their staff. And this helps with that. Because communicating with confidence, and communicating period is so important when you starting to grow a team. That's
Michelle Lynne 29:17
so funny, I didn't realize that you and I have a very similar background. The I went into management, like right out of college. So I was 2324. And I've been managing people since then. And there's such an innate, you, I can't speak for you. But I learned the hard way by being you know, 12 years old and managing people. You know, I did a lot of things wrong. So yeah, had I had this book because there's a lot of things that you learn just by bumps and bruises. That would have been super helpful. And that's what I teach people, my team and clients the reminders
Nancy Ganzekaufer 29:53
it's just like I don't know if you ever diet Michelle, but you know, Lord, hi, you can read about dieting for our entire lives and just forgot about that. Oh, yeah, let me be like these are refreshers that we tend to move away from when we're busy. Right? So that's why,
Michelle Lynne 30:10
yeah, just moving at the speed of lightning. No, I think you mentioned in the book, you don't like the phrase I'm sorry. Yep. Can you expand on that? Because I think that that's a very common phrase that we're taught the clients always right. It
Nancy Ganzekaufer 30:23
is one of the phrases that drives me crazy. And believe it or not my entire team when they get hired, and when they're not allowed to say they're sorry, because to me, I'm sorry, means I did something purposely to hurt you. And I need to say I'm sorry. And I do say I'm sorry, I'm not a person who never says I'm sorry. If I've done something to hurt you. purposefully. I will be the first like when I say purposefully, could be purposely by mistake, but it's more hurtful, right? That I right, effected someone's emotions I made. But other than that, most things I categorize and I don't think I worded it in the book this way. Although it would have been a good way. They're more like accidents. Yes, right. Yeah, makes a mistake, sending an email and sends it out to the entire world instead of the 10 people who were supposed to get it. I'm like, it used to be Oh, my God, I'm so sorry, Nancy. But I don't, it's okay. Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody has accidents. Obviously, if you meant do do it, I would fire you. But you didn't mean to do it. It's an accident. I make mistakes. So all I want from my staff is Nancy. This is what happened. This is why it happened. This is how we fixed it. And this is how it's not going to happen. Again, those four things. And now I the communication with my team is amazing. They don't even apologize to themselves as much. Although I hear it once in a while. Yeah, right. It's just just tell me how you fixed it how it happened. I know you're human. Everyone is yes.
Michelle Lynne 32:05
And that's it's funny, because I had this conversation with my three year old daughter just this week. And she's like she said, I'm sorry, mom. I'm sorry, mom. And I was like, Baby, it's okay. Did you mean Did you mean to spill? I don't know whether even what it was? Did you mean to spill your water? Yeah. And it was just like, if it's an accident, it's okay. You know, it happens. And I'm praying that as she gets older, she doesn't have that automatic lingo of I'm sorry, because it it's what I love the way you explained it, I never put my finger on it. But I can feel it in my heart. I don't want you to feel like you did something wrong.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 32:39
Exactly. Right. And when you when you think about, you're giving them the ability to be human and make a mistake, and just explain what happened, and how it's not gonna happen again, you're actually providing growth for them, as well. And I feel better. I feel better when I'm not hearing. I mean, this is truly one of my biggest pet peeves, like when I'm around a bunch of women, and someone says, Does anyone need anything from the kitchen? And I say I'd love a glass of water. Okay, great. And they forget to bring it back. No big deal. Right? So get up and go to get in. Oh, I'm so sorry. I forgot to get your water. You need to apologize for that. I'm sorry, to me, if you couldn't just truly say, oops, oops, I forgot to get your water. Let me go get it or, you know, you just don't have to say I'm sorry. I'm sorry. In almost every situation can be replaced. Wow, believe that happened. Let me make it right.
Michelle Lynne 33:41
Right. And it diminishes us to say I'm sorry because I think that takes a little bit away from our our something but it diminishes our worth I don't know if that's the right thing, but it feels that way.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 33:55
It does it actually especially in a client service provider relationship. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot to call you back. Oh, I'm sorry that came in late. Oh, I'm sorry that sofa is going to be delayed. That's taking ownership of stuff that you didn't have control over or it didn't unfortunately I didn't get to call you back yesterday but I called you first thing this morning you don't have to add the changes.
Michelle Lynne 34:22
It changes so much right there if it continues to keep you as equals it's one professional hiring and another professional you are not subservient even though we are in a service type of industry. And
Nancy Ganzekaufer 34:36
seriously I could talk about this for hours because I was
Michelle Lynne 34:39
just gonna this needs to be a whole podcast is gonna say it's like getting under my skin.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 34:43
Peers I'm appear when you hire me as your coach, your peer that has a very distinct talent that I do not have. And I'm a peer that has a very distinct talent that you don't have. So you're hiring me to teach you from my I talent and someday I'm going to possibly hire you for your talent, you should never let a client make you feel less than just because they're exchanging money with you for what you do best. And that's part of what that I'm sorry, changes the balance of the power in the relationship. And you will notice this with spouses, siblings, children and clients and professional peer relationships. If you're always saying I'm sorry, on a construction site with a bunch of men, and you're the woman you will quickly find they are walking all over you and not respecting you.
Michelle Lynne 35:38
Damn skippy. Yeah, that is such a such a true statement. Okay, well, we will just schedule another podcast, because I could go into that one. And using the word jest. I just wanted to email you. Yeah. And you pull that out, and it still puts you as you're interrupting them. Right? things along that line. So yes, just keeping that balance of power. Who? Y'all this podcast episode was made possible in part by foyer, a lightning fast interior design software that creates photorealistic renderings. I'm not kidding, you can barely tell that it's not a real room. So why leave your beautiful designs up to the imagination of your client, when you can show them what their space is going to look like? You will sign more clients and get more approvals with the software. It's powered by artificial intelligence, and a whole vouch for its ease. Because if I can do it, anybody can. Because y'all know that my design team are the ones who do all the work. Find them in the show notes.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 36:41
I know it's a lot.
Michelle Lynne 36:42
Let me get
Nancy Ganzekaufer 36:43
what happened. I know I need a sip of my coffee. What happened was, and I'm looking for the page, because not only remember the link Exactly, we created a document, I'm literally looking in my own book, because I can't remember the website. By the book, there's a plot where it says you can download a PDF, which we titled, don't say that say this? Oh, yeah. Resource Guide on page 133. Okay, it's free. And it allows you to post word replacements on your desk. So if you struggle with saying things a certain way that may come across as either I'm sorry, aggressive, Kurt, I mean, I can't tell you how many emails and texts I rewrite from my one on one clients, you know, I always say, What do you want to say put it together first, because I don't want them coaching with me forever. I am meant to coach them to be great business people and fly on their own. But then I quickly turn it now you write it next time, and let me see how you do and we start training them on how to respond differently to difficult situations.
Michelle Lynne 37:51
What a great service that is. I mean, because my team and I, we we do that. But teaching just your outside coaching clients how to review that because Debbie and Megan they can do it all now because that's what we started doing because they were my team. How I'm gonna have to keep that in mind just so I can refer people because that in itself is a huge, huge skill.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 38:16
That's half of what Voxer is used for. So all my one on one with clients get a walkie talkie access to me and love me like my client said this what do I say back and they'll know in the beginning, I'll I'll spoon feed them and then a month or two into the relationship coaching with me I'll be like, What do you want to say? And how will you say it and then we start hating them too. They joke around they go think like Nancy they use the quotes air quotes Nancy say right and we start training them to think less of me more logically and less from a place of insecurity and more calm.
Michelle Lynne 38:53
I'm gonna look you up on boxer
Unknown Speaker 38:59
we're gonna get a message from you.
Michelle Lynne 39:04
So last question, and then we're gonna go into my fun little rapid fire q&a question. How do you what's your advice for dealing with an online bad review? I just actually came across this not so long ago. No, thankfully not for me, but it was one of my
Nancy Ganzekaufer 39:19
Okay, so I'm gonna give you my personal X. I had a personal experience and then how I coach my my clients. So my personal experience was unfortunate. It was an ex boyfriend who decided he was mad at me for breaking up and he put scathing, not one but two reviews. So it's a wonderful thing that was multiple years ago, three or four years ago to have a great community to say, can everyone help me out? You 10 book you tag it as inappropriate Facebook, if it's enough people reporting it will take it down. And then I also said if you feel so kind as to give me a review for what I do for you. I'd appreciate it. So if Facebook doesn't take it down week We bury it. So they that did happen. Yes, you too can do that. So they did take it down. Plus I got 46 reviews in one day.
Speaker 1 40:09
So like, maybe it was just try it out again. I was like, Well, can I piss off? My tears that day? I'm like, This is so nice, right?
Nancy Ganzekaufer 40:21
I went into my group, the interior design business forum. And I'm like, I think it had about 3000 people in it at the time. Now it's up to, I don't know, seven or 8000. But it was like, Could you all please do me a favor, but I have a client gets a negative review, an interior designer, let's say their tendency is to be so verbose in answering it. Well, you said this. And I said this and, and I want them to know, and none of that. And I'm like, No, you're getting sucked into that negative tornado. And it's much more professional for you to say one of a couple of things. So let me think one could be, as we discussed on the phone, these were not exactly the facts, but I am disappointed that you are upset. And like literally leave it at that. Right. It's going to show that you Jack I read. And
Michelle Lynne 41:11
you said you didn't even say I'm sorry, you're upset?
Nancy Ganzekaufer 41:15
No. And again, I It's like natural for me not to say I'm sorry anymore, that sometimes I actually have to go ooh, I should have said I'm sorry. Another way to handle it would be the way I handled mine. Get your loving tried putting family friends and ex clients to bury the review while reporting it if but most of the time, I'd say get a check on reality of how many people are actually going to see that bad review and believe it and give a really professional. It's unfortunate. You feel that way. I provided you with everything that I had promised you I would provide you with for what you paid me?
Michelle Lynne 41:58
Yes. And it's just, it's just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts, just the facts. And
Nancy Ganzekaufer 42:03
in my group, somebody did write like a very long, this woman wrote this. So I wrote down that I'm thinking of writing this back, and oh, my God, it was so long. And I'm like, please don't do that. And I just said, so I like please don't do that. Just do not have a public pissing match.
Michelle Lynne 42:20
Yes. It's just I do that on my next door app all the time. Right? Yes. Do you guys not have anything better to do than come up with these responses that are just like, like you said, a pissing match.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 42:33
Right? And how long did it take you to come up with that hour that you could have been working and billing a client, just by you know, pissing back on this client so fearful that it's going to change the trajectory of your business forever? No, it's not. It's one out you, you answer professionally, you just dismiss it basically, is my answer. You dismiss it, when, unfortunately, we are not a match, as we discovered during working together, but I am happy I was able to provide you forever, all the value that you paid for. And
Michelle Lynne 43:09
if anything, that professionalism is going to show anybody who's reading it, that you have that emotional and professional maturity to just move on. Maybe I will call her. It could work in the other direction.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 43:21
Exactly. And that's how that's what you want is to always look like the professional. Don't go. Don't lower yourself to their level ever. Yeah.
Michelle Lynne 43:31
I love that Nancy, and holy cow, I could literally sit here and have another hour or two conversation with you. I do hope to have the pleasure of meeting and hugging you in the future. But in the meantime, in the meantime, the next segment is a rapid fire q&a. It's just a just so that our audience can get to know you just a little bit better. Nothing's off the table. So let's see what we've got. We'll start off easy. Are you left handed or right handed? Right. When was the last time you laughed until you almost paid yourself?
Nancy Ganzekaufer 44:05
Two days ago with my daughter over the cave cricket that was hopping around my house and
Speaker 1 44:13
catch it. He was screaming at 25 years old. She's screaming I'm walking around with the Swiffer.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 44:24
We're screaming we're laughing It was really
Michelle Lynne 44:28
everybody needs a good laugh. More often than not, what's your dream travel destination?
Nancy Ganzekaufer 44:33
I want to go back to Tuscany. I've been there already but I would love to live in Tuscany for two or three months. I'm really just I'm all Italians would love to just get more into the food and the
Michelle Lynne 44:47
we should gather a whole bunch of interior design business coaches and have a mastermind at a villa. I'm in
Nancy Ganzekaufer 44:56
totally for about bunch of clients and just do Interior Design Master class three day more week, whatever. We
Michelle Lynne 45:10
have a couple people rotating through you can stay for a week. Yeah, yeah. Oh, the things we could do and write it off on taxes. Chocolate chip or oatmeal cookie,
Nancy Ganzekaufer 45:19
chocolate chip every time. Yeah. Red or white wine. Chardonnay, white. Oh,
Michelle Lynne 45:25
brand. Do you have a favorite? No.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 45:30
I would equal opportunity shot in a drinker. No, I do not. Like, but I do order my wine from dry farm wines with sugar and no sulfates. Because of my trip to Tuscany. I couldn't believe how much we could drink and not have a hangover.
Michelle Lynne 45:48
Right? Right. Right, right. Yeah. And yes, I'm a full believer with that. Okay, if you couldn't be in the profession you're in now, what would you be doing?
Nancy Ganzekaufer 45:57
If I couldn't be in the profession I'm in now. So it's not my dream, or I was a kid. It's
Michelle Lynne 46:04
or if you weren't, if you weren't in this profession, what would you be? I don't know. What would I that's a good thing. Right? Yeah. And that's
Nancy Ganzekaufer 46:12
a you know what I love what I do. And what didn't come up is I'm also a body language trainer, which goes hand in hand with communication. So I've been continuing my education so that I can continue to teach. I guess, maybe I'd be a psychologist.
Michelle Lynne 46:27
Yeah, kind of are right. Yeah. And I'm glad it didn't come up as body language because I would have had to turn my camera off. Record this audio.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 46:38
Everybody gets nervous when I tell them.
Michelle Lynne 46:42
I love that though. It's so new podcast, in the belly button or outie belly button. Any? And what is your favorite form of exercise? treadmill
Nancy Ganzekaufer 46:52
and running outside, which I can no longer do without aches and pains so much, but I still love it as my go to to clear my head would be that's how
Michelle Lynne 47:02
you decompress? Yes. There you go. When was the last time you took an app
Nancy Ganzekaufer 47:07
in High Point A week ago? I don't know when this is coming out. But yeah.
Michelle Lynne 47:15
I was just yesterday, I had that conversation with my staff. Member.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 47:19
Yeah, the point I got tired. I'm like, I don't need to be anywhere. I could be a lot of places. But you know what, I'm gonna go back and take a nap in my hotel room. And it was a man.
Michelle Lynne 47:28
Yes. So are you an introvert or an extrovert?
Nancy Ganzekaufer 47:31
I am an ambivert, which is a little bit of both, I gain a lot of energy from being around people that I'm helping. But when I go into a search, just a social situation, sometimes it's a little draining for me. So I have to go rejuvenate and be by myself. So I'm a little bit of both. That
Michelle Lynne 47:50
makes sense. I can I can I can see that. There's a difference when you go to social versus going to serve?
Nancy Ganzekaufer 47:56
Yes, yes. is what helps a lot of people. I'm not one of my kids suffers from pretty socially, pretty severe social anxiety. And there's a tie there too. When you are serving, you tend not to feel it as much as when you're just being yourself. Which is right because
Michelle Lynne 48:16
the interesting is not on you know, the attention is not on you. The attention is on the the audience that you're serving, right,
Nancy Ganzekaufer 48:24
and the information you're giving and providing right. Love that.
Michelle Lynne 48:28
All right last question. Just to respect everybody's time we're running. It's been such a great conversation. We just need to have like three of these. If you could have dinner with anybody dead or alive. Who would you invite one person?
Nancy Ganzekaufer 48:39
Vanessa Van Edwards, who wrote the book Captivate who is my body language trainer. She's the one who survived me. And I love her. And I love the science behind body language. And just her whole mission in life and understanding human nature and the nonverbal is fascinating to me that I would love to get her to dinner, and talk to her all about that.
Michelle Lynne 49:05
And watch.
Unknown Speaker 49:07
And watch right? I'd be watching each other the whole time.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 49:12
I love science behind sales and body language and communication. So it's always fascinating to me, people who actually put science behind what they teach, which is why I pursued that.
Michelle Lynne 49:24
Like, yeah, because there's more than just what no pun intended. There's more than what meets the eye. My gosh, Nancy, thank you so much for being on the show today. I have thoroughly enjoyed this. I've loved watching you grow and thrive, you know over the past few years and really wished you were around when I was starting my business. It was just not so pretty. But I'm certain that the audience has loved everything you've shared on today's podcast. So can you tell them how and where they can connect with you?
Nancy Ganzekaufer 49:56
Well, certainly they can go to my website, which is Nancy Hamzah coffer.com, which I'm sure you'll put a link in, and they can join the Facebook group, the interior design business forum, if they're an interior designer, I also just want to thank you so much for having me on the design for the creative mind. podcast here. Michelle, you like, I've been watching you too, and you are doing amazing with your bakery. And everyone's having such success, that it's so impressive to watch you grow and help so many people also. So thank you for everything you do for the industry, too, because I do believe all of us need to help everyone who needs help. Yes,
Michelle Lynne 50:37
a rising tide lifts all boats. Definitely. This industry is just so so hungry. Because what we do serves, I mean, it changes lives in somebody's homes, they wake up to a refuge, they go to sleep in a refuge, they can be their best selves in the middle of the day. Yeah. And it's just like, the
Nancy Ganzekaufer 50:58
collaboration that we are showing from down so to speak, right? The coaches, collaborating, being friendly, supporting each other is what's going to make them realize that when I started in this industry, nobody would share me as an art consultant. No, I'm not going to share my your art consultant. And I'm like, please share me because otherwise I'm gonna be here for you.
Michelle Lynne 51:20
Right? So you have to
Nancy Ganzekaufer 51:23
share your resources, be generous with your knowledge is just the basis of everything that I do. So thank you for having me that I truly appreciate it. Oh,
Michelle Lynne 51:33
my gosh, well, we will do this again. So watch for Nancy. Again, in the future. If you enjoyed this one, or whenever you're listening to it, you might search and find it, we've got three more, I think we've got enough, enough conversational pieces. And for those of you who can benefit from even more resources surrounding the business of running your interior design business, reached out to Nancy, you can also join my growing community on Facebook private group, it's called the interior designers business Launchpad. I go live there once a week, and then with just the mini trainings, and then I also have workshops every eight ish weeks. So I hope to see you guys there. And Nancy, thank you again, so much.
Nancy Ganzekaufer 52:09
Thank you, Michelle, talk to you soon.
Michelle Lynne 52:13
Hey, y'all. If you love the show and find it useful, I would really appreciate it if you would share with your friends and followers. And if you like what you're hearing, want to put a face with a name, and get even more business advice. Then join me in my Facebook group, the interior designers business launch pad. Yeah, I know it's Facebook, but just come on in for the training and then leave without scrolling your feet. It's fun. I promise you'll enjoy it. And finally, I hear it's good for business to get ratings on your podcast. So please drop yours on whatever platform you use to listen to this. We're all about community over competition. So let's work on elevating our industry, one designer at a time. See you next time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
