Michelle Lynne 0:02
Welcome to design for the creative mind, a podcast for interior designers and creative entrepreneurs to run their business with purpose, efficiency and passion. Because, well, every design is different, the process should remain the same. Prepare yourself for some good conversations with amazing guests, a dash of Jesus and a touch of the woowoo. And probably a swear word or two. If you're ready to stop trading your time for money, and enjoy your interior design business, you are in the right place. I'm your host, Michelle Lynn.
Well, hello, everybody, and welcome back to the podcast. I'm so happy you're here today. Of course, I say that every time I'm always excited to introduce my guests. Today, we have my badass interior design team, Debbie and Megan returning, I think you guys have gotten to know like and trust them. Love them. Yes, whatever. We're here, we're going to be talking today about how to navigate that gap between the client and your contractor. Yep. So we have experienced probably a little bit of anything and everything that could be experienced when navigating these conversations and the positions that are so distinctly different, but are necessary to be synergistic through this entire process. And you're just kind of stuck in the middle. So let me just open it up there and say, What are your general thoughts on your experience with clients and contractors? Like some of them have been amazing? Sometimes it's a little a little rough. So where would you where would you start the conversation?
Debbie 1:51
Well, communication, communication with everything. I would say the ones that have gone great and the clients happy, we're happy is because there's over communication. Details are written down, construction documents are complete. Everything's like triple duple. Whatever checked a lot of words a lot of and yeah, it's a lot of small, I feel like the small details are the things that we either forget or get overlooked or assume and that the client assumes something Yeah, well, yeah, definitely. And the client definitely does not know the little details and they
Michelle Lynne 2:24
shouldn't have to, that's what they pay us for exactly
Megan 2:27
brings it around to before the first sledge hammer is even, you know, swung, you need to make sure that you define your roles, and that the contractor is not supposed to go to the client to ask specifics. You are there the clients advocate, whether you bring your own contractor into the situation or not, the client still comes first. And because that's who's paying you, that's who's paying you, and they're also paying the contractor, but since you introduced him or her to the to the project, you need to make sure that your number one priority is protecting your client.
Michelle Lynne 3:03
Now, what if, on the rare occasion, so we are almost always referring our own contractor, and we have some clauses in the contract or whatever that we signed with our client. But what if they bring their contractor to the dance? Like have you have you noticed that there's a difference in your communication, communication, or their willingness to listen to you as the expert and percent?
Debbie 3:31
I'd say it's a little different. But I just think it's it's a trust factor that hasn't been grown yet. I've never had a bad experience with a new contractor. But it's just the level of what they think I know what I think they know, the trust, and then that continues to build. And then you, you know, you feel confident, and
Megan 3:50
then you don't know their communication style. You don't know their personality, you don't know their ability, which is another issue is what do they know, what can they do? Some type of business are they running because that can be a huge setback, if, you know, if they don't know what they're doing in their own business, you rely on them, you order the orders and stuff, you just you don't have that control when you bring someone
Michelle Lynne 4:17
unknown to the so let's back up a little bit and talk about how we go through and kind of vet or interview new contractors. So as as the business grows, and we get maybe more renovation projects at a time, especially right now post COVID. We've got how many kitchens that we're doing and so forth. Yeah. So then you can't you can't overwhelm one contractor with everything. So we go through and interview new contractors. So we learn those unknowns, and talk to them about our expectations. So at one point, we were kind of cheesy And we made them sign on a, you know, what did we call it the a team, a team, a team list. Now we just sit down and show them how we do our designs and level
Debbie 5:09
of work that we expect. Yeah, and what their portfolio looks like as well.
Michelle Lynne 5:13
And meeting them in person. It's kind of like with the clients we're interviewing to see if we want to spend time with them. We have to interview our contractors to say, so Megan's wearing, Megan's wearing a top, top knot. Right now she's shaking her head
Debbie 5:34
it's Friday, messy bun get shut down.
Michelle Lynne 5:39
We will be talking about
Megan 5:40
how you vet your contractors and to make us thinking about this. Because usually, you appearances, you judge people by appearances, and I'm not talking about them their personal appearance, but their presence on the Internet doesn't necessarily mean they're a better contractor. They don't have to have, you know, an award winning website. You know, some of them don't even have websites, they just, yeah, they don't have the
Michelle Lynne 6:07
little needed they because they've been doing this for so long. They just keep getting referrals,
Megan 6:10
getting referrals, however, asked to see one of their contracts and asked to see whatever pictures they have. And you know, you can also as a designer, ask for referrals from some of their past clients. References references. Yeah, you know, take referrals to referrals or references. Yeah, and but just basically that the, it's more important to have a well written contract and bid than it is to have a pretty website. Oh, yeah,
Debbie 6:36
I'd say the contract is really come into key with a few previous or past projects, with just making because nobody's perfect things happen. And you want to make sure for one that your self is covered. So the client doesn't come back on you for something that's contracted, but also that they're covered. And that the company, you know, all parties are safe. And to know that what the client is signing at the end of the day is, is good. That's that's trust, and
Megan 7:04
to accept the fact that with renovation, there's always something else is going to happen, or maybe something that's in the contract that you now don't have to do that they're looking at, like this might have to happen. And it's, it's not set in stone. And that's what change orders are for whether it's adding something in or taking it away, that don't hesitate to start your project, because you're a little overwhelmed by it. So it's just you need to know that, you know, renovation is fluid. That's
Michelle Lynne 7:33
a great point. And having a contractor who has that experience will know how to kind of roll with those clashes. And I think that that goes back to what we were talking about with contracts is a lot of times contractors, almost like designers, they're good at what they do. So they start a business doing what they're good at. But they might not be good at the business of it. So your contractor, you should not assume that even if they're have wicked, wicked talent, that they have the legal documents in place to protect all parties. So asking to see their contract might feel a little bit awkward if you don't if you're not bossy, like like we've gotten. But it's your right, if you're sending them business to ask to see those documents and even their insurance.
Megan 8:15
Yes, it is. And it's just an once again, I mean, they, they're contractors, that's a skill, and it's a craft, and it's an art form. And it's logistics, it doesn't necessarily mean that businessman, no, don't expect it to be like signing a contract when you buy a dishwasher. So, you know, it's different. Cars far.
Michelle Lynne 8:40
I don't think I had to sign a contract when I bought my dishwasher.
Megan 8:43
Did we? You signed some paperwork?
Michelle Lynne 8:47
Probably yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Just on the dotted line. Okay,
Megan 8:51
for installation. That's work. Yeah, that's true.
Michelle Lynne 8:58
That was funny. No, but you're right. It's, it's a it's an independent business, oftentimes, and even if they've grown to the point where they look like they're legit, you can't make that assumption, and partially as well, because if you are introducing the contractor to your client, your contractor is unofficially an extension of your business. Their work is going to represent your referral.
Debbie 9:23
Yeah, I'd say their work but also how they keep the job site clean. Yeah, amen. Especially so it's so nice when they're not occupied because then contractor comes and goes when he needs to, but when they are, which is usually the majority of the time with renovations I mean, the clients living there and that's a huge don't leave beer cans around that tap into Gatorade bottle. No, I had a beer. I had a slide on a job site and he jumped in the contractor didn't know and I, you know, sub and the client saw it and I was like, oh, okay, that will be addressed my bad. You know, it's not a party. Yeah, it was so shocking. He was but that in or lock the lock box making sure the lock box
Michelle Lynne 10:04
is closed, making sure the air conditioners off with little things.
Debbie 10:07
But also, I've had an instance where a client was just dealing with the dealing with it dealing with it and not saying anything to us. And I was like, why? And so she finally spoke up. And I was like, yes, but these are, these are just issues that you shouldn't have to live with. And then I brought them to the, you know, the General, General contractor's attention, she was like, Oh, my gosh, like, we'll get on this ASAP like that. No, that's not acceptable. So it's a lot of times with the miscommunication, the client doesn't need to deal with that extra stress. And that's why we're there for
Megan 10:36
them. Don't forget to stress to your clients that they don't need to hound the contractor and his subs. And they're not supervising him. Yes, it's their home. And yes, they know what's going on. But if they see something that they're not sure about also good, you got your call your designer, let them handle it, you don't need to add that stress to your client by literally let them know that they can reach out to you that they don't have to stay on top of them. Because if anything, it's just going to delay things,
Debbie 11:02
right, which is the good thing of being the middleman in this sense, is you're there to help both sides, the client and the contractors. So basically,
Michelle Lynne 11:09
the best way to start this navigational relationship is going to be us sitting there with the contractor and the client and saying, here's, here's my role, here's your role, here's your role, and ensuring that everybody understands their their roles. It's just an education, because a lot of our clients think that they're responsible for whoever's in their house. But we're there to have those difficult conversations as need be. And
Megan 11:35
factor that into every project that you do that requires renovation that the time that it takes to be an advocate and to manage not go check on jobs, not necessarily a project manager, but just almost an inspector, and swinging, buying all that take that into consideration how much time that takes out of your day, and factor that into your business as
Michelle Lynne 11:56
well. Yeah, definitely. It always takes longer than you anticipate in the hardware. Construction administration,
Megan 12:04
exactly. And so start with that now and learn from our past mistakes.
Michelle Lynne 12:10
That's the plan. That's why we're here. Y'all, this podcast episode was made possible in part by Fourier, a lightning fast interior design software that creates photorealistic renderings. I'm not kidding, you can barely tell that it's not a real room. So why leave your beautiful designs up to the imagination of your client, when you can show them what their space is going to look like. You will sign more clients and get more approvals with this software. It's powered by artificial intelligence. And oh vouch for its ease, because if I can do it, anybody can. Because y'all know that my design team are the ones who do all the work, find [email protected], as well as in the show notes. And also, I think that when your client is not sure what value you bring with that construction administration, you know, now we have examples of a contractor who laid down a bathroom tile, it was a white bathroom tile, and it was supposed to have charcoal grout. And he laid it down with white tile and white grout. Now the client saw it because they were living at home sent Megan a picture. And Megan had to go back and have that difficult conversation with the contractor of Dude, this is on you. Because you had specified by and you've spilled everything
Debbie 13:37
out. And he just assumed that white tile White and White looks good. It does not have that. Yeah, that's the design. So you
Megan 13:45
have your backup design is supposed to be and he has the documents. And
Michelle Lynne 13:50
yeah, and if Megan hadn't specified the grout, right in writing, right, it would have been on it, then it would have been on us. It
Debbie 13:57
shouldn't be the clients fault for miscommunication, not having all the information that they need. So
Michelle Lynne 14:02
that's another reason why as the designer, you need to make sure that everything is spelled out and written down. And it's not a text. Hey, what color code is it supposed to be or a phone call? You know, and if you do have a phone call, because they're standing at the, at the tile shop and they're buying the grout, and they don't know what color, then you need to follow up with an email that says hey, thanks for getting it just to confirm it's blahdy blahdy blah, so that you have a Cya in place and cya stands for cover your ass. If the if the contractor were to come back in that instance, where you had them tear everything up, he could have said no, You never told me that.
Debbie 14:38
That and asking what style like whether an Excel sheet works. A word document works, just you know your PowerPoint with a description on it, what type of paperwork they would rather work off of and give to their subs. So it's easier for everybody to communicate. Yeah.
Michelle Lynne 14:54
And also having it taped up on site.
Debbie 14:56
I mean, yeah, even that sometimes still.
Michelle Lynne 14:58
Right there. Yeah, Debbie had the whole binder out there the construction binder at that one like project was it last year or last year,
Megan 15:06
it was a full house gut, partial occupied because they had second house second house actually is the large property and they had an apartment over a second building over there. And so they were looking for a site was party barn, actually. And I mean, that thing, you just would disappear in that house. And it just the phone calls I would get. And it was specified, not only by room, but by trade. So there were lots of tabs in it.
Michelle Lynne 15:35
And somebody took it home was at home. Yeah. It was so fancy that they wanted to keep it, Debbie. So we can't make any assumptions. And I think that also part of your job as the designer is to set the expectations of the client to know that, look, there's always going to be miscommunication, there's always going to be some sort of confusion, there's always going to be usually an error, especially the innovations
Megan 16:02
are headaches, it's an inconvenience, when you're living through it, there's the dust, which you know, they it's just it's an inconvenience, because there's a disruption in your household. And it's just a matter of patience. You know, and just just it does, it's a process and but just think about the end results. And
Michelle Lynne 16:21
you have to set the expectation with your client on the front end, Debbie, you've got such a great analogy, pregnancy pregnancy analogy, you guys are welcome to use this one, you don't have to, I won't send you an invoice. So basically,
Megan 16:33
think of the presentation of the design is finding out that you're getting pregnant. And then construction begins when you're starting to show and you're getting excited. And then towards the end, you're like Just get the hell out of here. Set with it. And then labor starts. And I can compare that to the punch list. It's just, it's just just be done already just be done already. And it's almost like the most painful part of the whole thing. And then it's done. They're out of your house, or whatever. You're thrilled. Love it. And then six months later, you forget what to put on the asset list.
Debbie 17:07
And you do want you do the next project.
Megan 17:13
Same with money, even the relationship with your contractor is like a marriage if they're a great person, you give you take the good with the bad and you learn to work through it. And you have conversations and you go on with it. And you learn from your mistakes. And if they don't, and they refuse to change, divorce that son of a bitch.
Michelle Lynne 17:30
So So you're talking about the relationship between the designer and the contractor is like a marriage. It's like a dance that we do. And just to going back to the marriage, it does come down to communication, setting expectations, and also having honest and respectful conversations when those expectations are not met and
Megan 17:51
expect and an understanding that the other person is human. Yeah, they're human too. I mean, they're not there is no perfect contractor. I wish there was
Michelle Lynne 18:00
and there is no perfect renovation. Well, there's
Megan 18:04
always something there. It could be. It could be a beehive that has happened. And it's or it could be you know, set a wall wasn't taped correctly that the sheet rock and so something had popped or something, there's just always something there's always something it's just some sometimes it's just something that just happened to slip through the cracks
Michelle Lynne 18:25
or you wake up because you're What were you talking about your nails, oh
Megan 18:28
my gosh, a nail pops. So you now have settles and like the the sheath the mud from the sheetrock that covers the nail that holds the sheetrock in place. Sometimes it separates, I was laying there one night and reading in bed, and I felt something fall on my head. And it was like the size of a diamond piece of sheetrock up and I could see the nail I
Michelle Lynne 18:48
wish I could have seen your face then. Yes, it does happen. And I think that we just have to set the expectations with our clients, we have to set expectations with the contractor that they need to make sure Oh, and we were talking about this earlier. The contractor if they have a team needs to convey our standards and expectation to their project managers or to their their lead or just their subs in general. Because like the guy who had the beer can left there. We've worked with him multiple times. He had a sub, I don't know if he was new or one off or a temp or whatever, or just was having a day or day yeah, he was having a beer. But he or she has to set those expectations with their employees or their subcontractors, right? Because again, they represent us through them. And I think having it spelled out has been helpful for us. So it's the same thing like no loud, profane music, you know, no smoking on the job. No, you know, pick up all your trash
Megan 19:49
throw your trash away, especially, I mean, an unoccupied home. You don't know. I mean, if rodents get inside because no one's there to check Arriving at
Debbie 20:00
Garden AC is just running. And it's,
Megan 20:03
there's so many things that could happen because things aren't taking care of that just just put it away. You know, there shouldn't be Gatorade bottles left.
Michelle Lynne 20:10
No, but needs to go with you every day. It's ridiculous.
Megan 20:13
Yeah,
Michelle Lynne 20:14
I think that's that's key, and, and being. So one thing to keep in mind as well is that if you're the designer, if this is a dance you're leading, you are leading because you are responsible for navigating this with the contractor on behalf of the client. Our job is to protect the client. And so if the contractor is not stepping up where they need to be, it's time to have a difficult conversation and as the owner of a business, that's your responsibility. And is it easy? No, no, no, most of us don't like to have those difficult conversations. But it's time to put your big girl panties on and do that because you were acting on behalf of your client. They're the ones paying you to do this job. So even if everybody is a pain in the ass, you still have to remain professional and see this through to the end.
Megan 21:04
Remember, you have leverage, because you brought this person to the dance if he wants to dance again. Uh huh. You know, you're in control, they they're going to want to work with you. Contractors love working with designers, because they don't have to think, yeah, we make all the slashes you just tell me where to put it and what to wear. And I'm doing it. Yeah, they want those projects with designers. Because sometimes, and I've talking to contractors who when they don't work with designers, and a client changes their mind about something, they're usually the ones searching for the solution. And they don't know that they should charge for their time. And then and they're not they don't know what to pick. And then they're worried about well, they like it. It's just it brings on a whole new level a headache for the contractor. So they want to work with you. So that being said, I know I'm rambling here. Give them a reason to, you know, live up to your expectations. It's the next job.
Michelle Lynne 21:59
Yeah. And I think that that does come in handy for us because we do get, we don't take advantage of it. But the contractors who know that we have their next job and their next job in their next job potentially in our pipeline as well. They're if they're smart, they're apt to respond quickly to your requests. If they're not smart. You don't want to work with them. Anyway. Yeah, thank you please drive through.
Let me interrupt myself to take a quick moment to thank satinath Insurance Agency for sponsoring this episode of The designed for the creative mind podcast. Their support and understanding of the interior design, decorating and home staging industries is unrivaled. Satin off understands what our businesses do. And they provide insurance that lets me sleep at night. Yep, this is the firm that I use. And they will do the same for your sleep habits. And your business too. They're more than an insurance agency, they are an extension of my business. They take care of the worry, because they are the experts, which allows me and my team breathing room to do what we do best designed beautiful spaces. You can find their contact information below in the show notes. Give them a call today. So what else have you come across when you're navigating that space in between the contractor and the client? Have we covered everything? Or what else can you think of? Who's
Debbie 23:24
ordering what? Oh, that's a bit yeah, because right now I'm dealing with a client who's out very far away. And she's ordering the majority of things. But then the contractor is because we were not paid a procurement fee. So I can send links to certain tiles, but she asked how much and what she should order I said, Well, you have the link of the product, ask the contractor how much square footage, you all get between each other. So finding out those roles kind of same thing. And
Michelle Lynne 23:53
normally, we don't do that this one is very
Debbie 23:57
far out. So her whole project has been a little bit different. But then we've had other projects where the contractor orders all the plumbing, but yet we order the point all the lighting, and you know, and who's managing the appliances and all of that. So having those expectations. Yeah, yeah, I said, I would think that would be
Megan 24:15
very helpful with ordering that I've kind of learned to kind of back my way into so to speak is like fertile, and the square footage and what you need. You know, I give an estimate based on my drawings, but I'm not a tile installer. So as far as the pattern and the waste, right, so it's like it's going to be roughly around this actual unit numbers may vary based on the measurements from the actual tile installer, not even the GC his setup. So if you just give it a guideline, guideline, and then that way you can say so even if they give you a deposit, just say if it's if it's less or more, we'll we'll let you know
Michelle Lynne 24:55
right? And more often than not, I'd say 99 or 99 out of 100 times And we're just handing over all of the ordering to the contractor. Because they know when to order it so that it's on him what to order them
Debbie 25:10
saying relationships to contractor and
Michelle Lynne 25:13
I'm marched, it's not worth it now, and if they don't pass on any sort of trade discount that they get, then that's on them. But that might be part of just like, just like us part of our profit lines are lines of lines of profit, profit lines, whatever. Part of our profitability comes from selling furniture. So if the contractors business model has him or her making money based on what they sell to the client, or procure on their behalf, then I don't want to take money out of their pocket, right?
Debbie 25:45
And usually, like, I can think of one instance, we have a contractor who on his bid list 20%. Contractor like that's what they make Mark. Yeah, yeah, but they give the appliance cost they give all so they pass their discounts. But on the bid, it does say this is marked up 20% For our for our markup. And so it's very just, honestly, I kind of enjoyed that. Because there's no secrets there. Well, how much was this? I thought this was this, it's like, no, here's their seat if you want to see it, and you're paying more for the work, which is what's valued at the end anyways. So I kind of find if you are working with a contractor, and they have a ask you about that, that would be a good, you know, 20% markup, and then the project the project costs costs, which then pastor discount lately fair,
Megan 26:33
and if you think about the amount of work and the logistics, to be in a GC, Oh, dear God.
Michelle Lynne 26:39
Minimum, yeah. That's why they do it, because it's so much more work for us. So we don't work as GCS for the record. Anything else that you can think of?
Megan 26:49
To be honest, and be, you know, polite,
Debbie 26:51
you check and continue to check in with your clients, you know, even if it gets annoying, it's like you're saying same sentence each week, or you know, every couple of days, depending on the project and where it's at. But just making sure that they know that you're there for them. And that even if it's small, not being afraid to text, you call you email you, so you can be there to help them yes,
Michelle Lynne 27:11
and that they're not there to oh, that's another one is that if so we'd need to educate the client, that if a contractor, subcontractor, whomever come to them, asking them about design decisions, that they always point them back to us. So always, it is not, this is not the responsibility of your client to either refer back to the original design, presentation and details, or to answer questions that might have been overlooked. Because we're humans, sometimes we have a looks and revision,
Debbie 27:39
sometimes they have an old copy. And you've made revisions in between the presentation and construction. And so it could be a grout change, it could be a completely new child, because that runs out of stock. So making sure your documents are updated as you make these revisions. Because that can be a headache, because then you're referring back to three old copies, and it's not the right one, and then everybody gets confused. So yeah, I would say continuing to update your documentation, as think, because if they
Michelle Lynne 28:10
didn't giving it to all parties, so yes, we still do give the updates to our clients so that they know what to be looking for. If they're on site. They I mean, they're gonna pop in there and see that it was white grout instead of black grout. But if it's not on the updated version, they're not going to be that extension of your eyeballs while they're living it that on the project size,
Megan 28:29
right? The project started off in the on the right foot, maybe just schedule a walk through with you and the contractor, a final walkthrough before construction begins. And just that way, just to reiterate, this is what's happening here
Michelle Lynne 28:43
and maybe printing out that final document so that you're not relying on them to find it in their email and print it themselves write
Megan 28:49
notes with that walkthrough on that document. So it's spelled out and you know, I mean, maybe have everybody sign it. That's
Michelle Lynne 28:57
not a bad idea. Yeah. On the revisions there. Yep. I see your signature here. Oh, there was one more thing I was gonna mention. Oh, also, yeah, just finding out so we had one recently with a new contractor. They actually brought us to the project, after Snowmageddon here in Dallas, with a client that Debbie's working with now and we didn't have the time, because everything needed to be turned around so quickly, and there was damage to the house water, blah, blah, blah. We didn't have time to clarify who's gonna buy what Yes, and we stepped on their toes, making any assumptions that we were gonna be others just a little kerfluffle because we just made these assumptions that we wouldn't find from our vendors. And they that's how the NP came to me directly into this is how we make some of our money. I'm like, Oh, we're not trying to take any money out of your pocket. Gotcha. cupboard, no problem. No order it.
Megan 29:57
Yep. sorry for the misunderstanding going forward. I got it. Yeah, no. And it
Michelle Lynne 30:01
was, it's easier for us because you can just click on the links. Yeah. So at the end of the day, I would say that you, as the designer have to remember that you are the biggest advocate for your client, and that you're protecting them from the shizzle. That happens during a renovation as much as possible. You're also the translator for the contractor. So they can take your vision and implement it. So you have to be very clear, because we're not You're not talking to another designer who can bridge the gap between what you're inferring and the actual expectation. And then just preparing both parties to know that while you're an advocate for the client, you're here to make sure that everybody's job goes along well. So you're a little bit of a therapist.
Megan 30:52
And reward for a good relationship with a contractor is that next job and it gets easier. That's
Michelle Lynne 30:58
a valid point it does, it gets easier and easier and easier. But at the end, you can also what we what we've done a couple times it was we do a bit of a post mortem, what could we have done differently? What could we have done better? Here's what we could have used from you. And then you just sit down and have that candid conversation. We're not pointing fingers or assigning blame, which is like, Oh, yep, like, I could have done that better. You're right. Now I know what you need next time, because we can't read their mind either, right?
Megan 31:26
And just you know, what can we do to make their lives easier? And what just the
Debbie 31:30
whole experience easier? Yes,
Megan 31:31
it's a win win for everyone. Another
Michelle Lynne 31:33
job down the road? Well, that you get faster. So you're making more money, because those things are turning and burning better? Definitely. All right. Well, I hope you guys have enjoyed this little roundtable discussion about how to navigate the gap between your contractor and your clients. So Debbie, and Megan, thank you so much for being here. Always appreciate it held you hostage after our Friday meeting. So I know that our audiences loved everything you shared. If you guys are looking to follow Debbie and Megan on Instagram, where can they find you?
Debbie 32:05
At Megan Fornes Megan underscore, on Instagram, yep, dead
Megan 32:11
underscore does underscore design.
Michelle Lynne 32:14
And you'll see them tagged on ml interiors group, often unless
Debbie 32:21
we're at gmail.com. Wrong thing. But
Michelle Lynne 32:24
now you're gonna be getting some emails. So I'll make sure those details are listed in the show notes for our audience to reference as well. And for those of you who can benefit from more resources surrounding the business of running your interior design business, join my facebook community. It's a private group. It's called the interior designers business Launchpad. I hop on there once a week and offer just little mini trainings as well. So you'll hear me on the podcast, you'll see me on the launch pad. And, of course, there's the Instagram where you can find us. So And finally, please, if you're enjoying this podcast, any sort of review that you can leave is very much appreciated. It helps keep us relevant in the search engine, and share the availability and the resources with as many people as possible. So thanks for joining. We'll see you next time. Bye, bye. Hey, y'all. If you love the show and find it useful, I would really appreciate it if you would share with your friends and followers. And if you like what you're hearing, want to put a face with a name and get even more business advice. Then join me in my Facebook group, the interior designers business launch pack. Yeah, I know it's Facebook, but just come on in for the training and then leave without scrolling your feet. It's fine. I promise you'll enjoy it. And finally, I hear it's good for business to get ratings on your podcast. So please drop yours on whatever platform you use to listen to this. We're all about community over competition. So let's work on elevating our industry, one designer at a time. See you next time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
