Michelle Lynne 0:02
Welcome to design for the creative mind, a podcast for interior designers and creative entrepreneurs to run their business with purpose, efficiency and passion. Because, well, every design is different, the process should remain the same. Prepare yourself for some good conversations with amazing guests, a dash of Jesus and a touch of the woowoo. And probably a swear word or two. If you're ready to stop trading your time for money, and enjoy your interior design business. You are in the right place. I'm your host, Michelle Lynn.
All right, so welcome back to the podcast, everyone. I'm so very excited you're here. Because today I have best Bender, who is actually somebody that I've known for a few years and has really become not just a good business partner, but somebody that I consider a business, a business mentor, in some instances, just looking at the way she's grown her business. So I want to introduce you to Beth. She is the co founder and principal of the dove agency. So Beth, thank you so much for being here. I'm like I'm so honored.
Beth Bender 1:23
Thanks for asking. I'm excited to be here. To talk so different, right? Nothing
Michelle Lynne 1:32
is different. The only thing is, is we're recorded and we will have to stay on point. So we're not talking for an hour.
Beth Bender 1:41
So we can do it.
Michelle Lynne 1:42
We can do it. Let's see if we're not in the time as we speak. Okay, so, Beth, you are the co founder and principal of the dev agency. But for the listeners who have no idea what the heck that is, give us the 30,000 foot view like what do you guys do?
Beth Bender 1:59
30,000 foot view. We are a professional services firm strictly for the interior design industry. So we serve as interior designers, showrooms, home builders, really people that are inside of this industry, with their financial services, things like their bookkeeping, their sales, tax filings, financial consulting, procurement services, you know, we're just gonna basically include your ordering expert in tracking and then on the marketing services that we have, we service them with everything from you know, your typical marketing services, social media management, digital advertising, publicity, website development, you name it, we kind of have the we have the peeps in house to be able to get it down.
Michelle Lynne 2:45
The Dudley's, you have the deadly Yes, we
Beth Bender 2:47
call them the Dudley's. Like a lot of jokes with with a my dad,
Michelle Lynne 2:53
it's super fun, it is super fun. Well, and I came across you guys, when I was working with just a standard CPA slash bookkeeping company that didn't understand some of the nuances. And I never knew that. Well, I, my gut always knew that I didn't have all of the information that I needed for my financials. We were actually I think, just on the tail end of a sales tax audit, when you and I were introduced. And when we met, I was like, I could totally exhale because you guys get it. So what? So a couple things. One, I'm a huge proponent of outsourcing, I have outsourced my financials. Since you know, very early on, I love hearing that. Yes. But explain from your perspective, like my audience, and my students, my clients and everybody, they're like, Michelle, we get it. But explain from your perspective, what's the benefit of outsourcing, accounting, or procurement, or your social media, the PR all of the things that you guys do. But why?
Beth Bender 3:56
As like, I think the main reason is because it's almost impossible with a number of hats that an interior design firm, or an interior designer has to wear, it would be impossible to bring in one person or two people to be able to cover all of the tasks and the responsibilities that need to get done to run a design firm, effectively. Essentially, you know, we're all small businesses. And so as a small business, the idea of bringing in overhead for cost of employees, you need to make sure that that cost of that employee is going to benefit your firm in the very best way possible. So do you use that to bring in another a designer or to bring in an executive assistant to really help you be most effective? Or do you go out there and try to bring in one person to be a jack of all trades that knows a little bit about social media and a little bit about bookkeeping and a little bit about procurement? Because more than likely, you're not going to find that that magic bullet that's going to it's going to cover all of those tasks. And you know, the design industry has become so simple rusticated is that I think having people that are really specialist in each of these areas and understand this industry and all its intricacies. I think that that's why you outsource so you can get specialist and each of these areas that really
Michelle Lynne 5:14
what they're doing, and it's practicing what we preach. We tell our clients, look, we're professionals, this is what we do. You're outsourcing the, the design and the decoration and the, the cosy that we're creating in your home. Absolutely. So as designers, we can't do it all like I can do. I can do my social media. Okay, do I do it? Well, not always. I could create a website if I needed to, can I do it? Well, not at all. So it's, I think that it also saves us time. Because when I teach, and you can appreciate this is like, we make money designing. I don't make money procuring. Exactly. So why and this was something that took me a long time to figure out. And I'm also one of those case studies that I tried to bring these people in house. And I'm like, Nope, this isn't working. So being able to outsource has just been such a blessing.
Beth Bender 6:09
On that note, real quick, Michelle, I've had some designers that have come and said, you don't have this rockstar, team member. And right now I'm trying to have them do a little bit of everything. And it's not working out, you know, they're doing a little design here. There's a little procurement here on social media, and it's not working, and they're not feeling fulfilled. And so it's not about telling that person that's the rock star sidekick to your business, hey, you're out. I'm outsourcing it all. Instead, it's saying, Listen, let's come up with a great division of responsibility. Where that that sidekick is doing what they're best at, that's going to make you the most money that you can go out for the most possible, you know, future revenue to your company and figure out then where to outsource.
Michelle Lynne 6:56
And I, one of the things I learned from a previous boss was that the numbers will always tell you, yes. So as interior designers, we don't love running numbers. But you can simplify it to say, Okay, I'm paying this person X number of dollars. And then you can ask your payroll, bookkeeper or whomever, okay? What's the actual overhead that it costs me per hour for this person, not just their salary? Exactly. For all of those details? And then, are you billing out that amount, and help? Heck, we don't Bill hourly, but we can still kind of factor that in and determine, Okay, for me to make a profit. For her to be doing social media, I'm gonna have to make $120 an hour to cover her costs or whatever. So that'd be profitable. Exactly. And it's one more person to manage, right? Like what is so thankfully it with my team, like we all get along. So well, we've worked together for so long, we can give a disclaimer for feeling grumpy, right? I have a bunch of women, but at the same time, he's just having to deal with another personality, another everything and I love managing, but it's hard. Yeah. Especially when you're trying to manage a client. I
Beth Bender 8:03
mean, Michelle, for you, you've put together this rockstar team that does understand what their role is in the picture. And I think that that's, you know, important too, is because
Michelle Lynne 8:15
I outsourced everybody who didn't. Although for any of you guys who are listening who used to work for me at one point, you know, there's, you know, what's we got going on? But it's true. It's like we couldn't be all things to all people. Right, right. Yeah, that's absolutely true. So if, if listeners are sitting here thinking, Okay, I need to hire somebody to do procurement. I need to hire a part time bookkeeper, I need to hire somebody to do my social media. What What should they look for? Like? Like, you guys are great, because you do it all? Centrally located, I get one invoice, this is what we do. Right? But what should people be looking for? Let's talk about accounting. Specifically, like what should they be looking for in an accountant bookkeeper, if they are outsourcing and they're not calling you after this conversation and realize your, your brilliance
Beth Bender 9:10
the number one thing they need to be looking for is somebody that at least has an understanding of this industry. You know, it's it's amazing to me the number of people that come to us and their books are just in a disastrous state, not because they haven't done the right thing by trying to give it over to a professional, but because the professional that they gave it over to didn't really understand truly the workflow of an interior design firm and how much money is flowing in and out on a weekly basis. And so you know, understanding that you can't ever look in the bank account and say up I reconciled the accounts and this is how much money you have. Because you're you've always got to be thinking from that and not to get into too much of accounting terminology, but you need to be thing came in, in that accrual perspective, you've got a lot of accounts payable, a lot of accounts receivable receivable happening in an in a design firm. And so you need somebody that's going to at least understand it, or somebody that is willing to dig in and learn it, and not try to fit your business into the model of a doctor, or a law firm, or these other professional services industries that do not have the kind of money flowing in and out as fast as it does in a design
Michelle Lynne 10:34
firm. It does. And even just like for a simple pillow, you get the money in from a client, and it's sitting there, and then it's going right out. And the pillow itself has like 10 components. Exactly. So there's 10 Different things that have to be reconciled.
Beth Bender 10:48
Exactly. You have a lot of things that quite honestly, with as much as especially I will say this is really important for the designer that doesn't have a staff working with them, the number of things that hit your credit card automatically, whether it's receiving charges, or freight charges, or whatever, ancillary fees that you weren't necessarily thinking to yourself, oh, I need to remember to go back and charge my client that $22 or whatever those can start to add up. And you get to the point where you finished invoicing your client, and then you look back and you're like, Oh, we're that was, you know, $400 of all these little fees. It's, you're not going to go nickel and dime your clients. You don't go back and invoice them. You do that 1015 times a year. Oh, yeah. That could be your social media budget. Yeah.
Michelle Lynne 11:40
I had a I had my tax accountant one year, tell me if you had 6% more income? Uh huh. Look at the difference in pricing that you would have the difference in profit you would have had, and I was just like, oh, 6% Like if I would have raised my fees 6%. If I would have collected 6%, more like that, look at this difference. And that was so eye opening
Beth Bender 12:01
as to you're looking for a bookkeeper, that is going to count the pennies, not somebody that is going to in in that I'm joking when I say this, but just write and do a quick little journal entry to make the balances, right, you know, to make your balance sheet work or to reconcile your accounts. Yes, it's going to truly go chases pace.
Michelle Lynne 12:26
Y'all, this podcast episode was made possible in part by foyer, a lightning fast interior design software that creates photorealistic renderings. I'm not kidding, you can barely tell that it's not a real room. So why leave your beautiful designs up to the imagination of your client, when you can show them what their space is going to look like. You will sign more clients and get more approvals with the software. It's powered by artificial intelligence, and a whole vouch for its ease. Because if I can do it, anybody can. Because y'all know that my design team are the ones who do all the work, find [email protected] as well as in the show notes. And I also think that that's important because as a CEO, you have to take a look not at the cost of outsourcing, but at the return on investment. Absolutely. Because I could look at your face and say, okay, the dove agencies expensive, okay, yeah. But you're you're professionals, you do what you do you save me money in the long run, because you are counting all those little extra pennies, and you're reminding me Hey, where does this go? What is this assigned to? And like, I sleep better at night because I was that client who brought you the books that I'd had a very reliable CPA firm that had bookkeepers. I had another bookkeeper who specialized in construction so I thought she knew what she was doing with that like I am that case study. Like holy cow like the last year I have slept better, just
Beth Bender 14:03
that makes me so happy because that's really I mean that was the whole reason we started the firm is I just kept thinking there needs to be a place kind of a one stop shop and I'm not that professional. I'm not the one doing the books. I'm not the one doing the marketing doing the publicity doing so I mean, I'm not I am the you know, the the person who is kind of pulling together the people that have been doing this for a really long time and that are professionals in their area. And there are you are gathering the flock I am gathering that is what is my CI I am Chief gather I've never been called that before. I think I might start to use that in my in my little bias from you know, I think that designers they're doing that for their clients. You know, they're going into their home to their client's homes, and they are pulling together all the things that are needed and all the data for resources and everything that is needed for their, for their design to make that that home beautiful and perfect. And I think they need to look at their own firms in the same way, you know, they need to look at the people in their firm in the exact same way is what's going to create the most picture perfect. You know, sitting flat, and
Michelle Lynne 15:21
the same thing. It's like, just with accounting, I'm not an accountant, I don't even play one on TV. So I'm not going to do I'm not going to do my own accounting. I could do my own social media. But you know what, I'm better at building my business and builder, I'm better at like my, if you're a solopreneur, you're better at designing. Right? So come up with your methodology. And granted, not everybody can afford to outsource immediately. Absolutely. I do think that is something to not discount just because you've been doing it for so long. Right? So just because it because you're you guys are experts. I don't tell. I don't tell the lady who does my hair, how to color my hair, right? I don't tell you guys how to do my books. You tell me here's how it works. Exactly.
Beth Bender 16:04
And you know, it's interesting. I had a conversation just this morning with a designer who called us and she's very small. She's just starting off her business. She just finished design school and her husband's a CEO and he you know, he was like, we're doing this right from the get go, we're doing this right from the get go. And she she did she heard our fees. And she was like, Whoa, why? No, no, no, if I'm there, and you know, what I said to her was, you might not be there yet, you know, you might not be ready for this level yet. However, when you're you know, when your husband was telling you as a CEO of a multimillion dollar company, this is what you're going to do. You're going to start off, right, it's because there's a lot of industries out there, that there are hard startup cost from day one. And the design industry, you really can kind of jump into it. with not a lot of startup costs, you can get rolling, and it's you yourself out there pounding the pavement, doing it all wearing all the hats. But I guess if you want to think about this as is this going to be a hobby for me? Or is this going to be a business for me? You need to think at the day one of starting your business? What are going to be the startup costs to this business? And if I were to give any advice, it would be your number one startup cost is twofold. What software are you going to put your business on? And secondly, who's going to do your bookkeeping in your accounting? And how are you going to get that? So?
Michelle Lynne 17:37
Because this spreadsheet doesn't cover it?
Beth Bender 17:39
Exactly, exactly. I'm so sorry. Do you don't you'd love it. Our alarm literally directly to go out middle of a podcast. Oh,
Michelle Lynne 17:50
good. But here's the thing is, if you're listening to this while you're driving, it's not somebody honking at you.
Beth Bender 18:00
It's all okay, somebody decided.
Michelle Lynne 18:01
I think that is awesome. It's all good. It's all good. Reality. And I think that people have probably relaxed their expectations now that we're all working from home. Yes. Realize that life happens. And in my, in my experience, and this is what I teach my students, my clients, my my team, perfectionist perception. Absolutely. So yay, I'm glad that car alarm went off. I thought that was hilarious. And then we were talking about, like, when you when you do have these hard startup costs, and even if you start for the first three to six months, and you think you can handle it, and then you realize just how many transactions there are. There are so many software's to choose from, like, what like, what, how do you know what to select? I can tell you what works for us. But there's so many different ways to look at it. I
Beth Bender 18:52
think one of the best things that's happened to the interior design industry in the last five years is this concentration of the the people that are out there creating software and bigger, better, more efficient ways for designers to work and to use technology. It's amazing. I mean, every time I turn around, somebody's asking me, have you heard of this technology? Or have you heard this technology and and I think it's fantastic everything from you know, rendering technologies, which Michelle, you and I were just talking about technologies to help you with your, your, your mood boards, to technologies for your accounting in your, you know, and your bookkeeping and everything else. So I think the first most important thing you have to decide is, are you wanting a integrated system where you're basically using one system that's going to do everything from your project management all the way through to your accounting. There are three or four big players in that space, have integrated systems and then there's a whole lot of systems out there that are just on the project management side and they're basically saying we're going to help you with your, you know, your proposals and your orders and your invoices, etc. But then you're going to have to let that either all flow over or you're gonna have to have a bookkeeper over there manually going in and, and putting your accounting or your bookkeeping into something like a QuickBooks or FreshBooks, or something like that. So there's really two different buckets. That I think is that's that's your first decision. Like I said, if you're going into this, and you're deciding I'm going to make an investment in this industry, then looking at the the integrated project management systems, I think is important, I think it would be a good thing to investigate those first. And understand those you know, I you know, I'll tell you up front are our favorite is design docs. We love it. It's a company out of Canada, it's fantastic. It's nuts and bolts, rock solid project management and bookkeeping, you know, on the other bucket of of software that you can use just for project management, and then connect with it. And not actually connect them but but use it in conjunction with a accounting system. I you know, there's so many great ones out there. I mean, you've got IV, you've got my DOMA you've got you've got a bunch of great ones out there. You've got design files you got I mean, I could go on and on. There's it seems like every day I turn around, there's a new one popping up. But
Michelle Lynne 21:23
we've tried, we've tried a couple of them. But I think that for us that integrated software was a game changer. And what we did is we stair stepped into it. First we did project management, and then we did accounting and we and then the we've always done the procurement through it. But it's just so much easier to to know that everything is ticked and tied. Yeah,
Beth Bender 21:44
I think so too. I mean, I think that it's that's one of the things that I think the advances in these integrated systems over the past five years is so impressive and so helpful
Michelle Lynne 21:54
that and I think that they're not as clunky. So when we first got dialed in years ago, it was just it was very clunky workflow, yet it worked. So yeah, I love I love that. Let me interrupt myself to take a quick moment to thank that enough insurance agency for sponsoring this episode of The designed for the creative mind podcast, their support and understanding of the interior design, decorating and home staging industry is unrivaled. Satin off understands what our businesses do, and they provide insurance that lets me sleep at night. Yep, this is the firm that I use. And they will do the same for your sleep habits. And your business too. They're more than an insurance agency, they're an extension of my business, they take care of the worry, because they are the experts, which allows me and my team breathing room to do what we do best designed beautiful spaces. You can find their contact information below in the show notes. Give them a call today. I was thinking I think we've been actually working together for more than a year. It's I know, I shouldn't get 20
Beth Bender 23:00
I should go back and look at when we started. But I do think it's important a year. Yeah,
Michelle Lynne 23:04
cuz I think 2020 Just kind of like, is we're
Beth Bender 23:10
gonna, we're gonna go back and look at it's gonna have been two years, and we're gonna be it truly was the year that didn't happen.
Michelle Lynne 23:19
But thank you, you guys have been very helpful for us. And just for the record for all of the listeners, I do not get a kickback. Beth is not giving me any sort of discounts or promotion or anything like this in regards to our conversation and how I promote her. I just believe that she has her and her team. And then there's others out there like her have exponentially assisted our growth and my sanity, that I want to share that with others. So that's that's where we're coming from in this conversation. But Michelle, I'll
Beth Bender 23:50
say on that note, too, you know, any of the systems you choose when you're when you're evaluating systems, the great thing is they all have their lists, they almost every system that I know out there has put together their list of of industry experts that help with the bookkeeping. So whatever system you choose, which you know, you go and you research all the systems, ask ask the company, can I see a list of your consultants or what bookkeepers do you recommend? Because there really are several fantastic firms across the nation that are doing the bookkeeping for interior designers specifically. So pretty much any system you choose, you're gonna be able to find somebody that knows how to use that system.
Michelle Lynne 24:35
That's a great point. And you don't want to just hand it over to your bookkeeper Who is it was just standard to try to tick and tie all of those details. Exactly. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Okay, so Beth, you know, I love to talk about all things business. Yes, but I also like to have a little bit of fun. Okay, so our next segment is what I call rapid fire q&a. And it just allows the audience to get to know you a little little bit better. Nothing's off the table
Beth Bender 25:10
a little little TMI too much and I gotta tell myself no to
Michelle Lynne 25:17
you know me well enough, and we were on a podcast episode a couple of weeks ago with with Braden. And it was similar was taking the fear out of financials, but I think I think we had more fun with him dropping the F bomb. We really haven't talked about financials. So this is the don't worry about TMI, we're good. Okay, so we're gonna start off slow, easy. Are you left or right handed?
Beth Bender 25:43
I'm right handed.
Michelle Lynne 25:44
Where's your dream travel destination? Oh, Switzerland. Oh, that sounds fine. Red or white wine. Oh, white for sure. Sauvignon Blanc? Yes. Oh, so you're quite specific. I'm writing this down from Australia. I'll have to look that up. Any or outie? Belly button.
Beth Bender 26:05
Oh, any.
Michelle Lynne 26:08
Would you go to the beach of the mountains?
Beth Bender 26:11
Well, that's such a funny question. Because my husband and I debated pretty much every year. But I would say the mountains.
Michelle Lynne 26:18
The mountains, hence Switzerland. Yes. A lot of beach there. My geography is correct. dog or cat? Dog. Favorite recent book read.
Beth Bender 26:30
Nightingale.
Michelle Lynne 26:32
Oh, that was good. Good one. I forgot about that one. When was the last time you took a nap?
Beth Bender 26:39
yesterday. Oh, I'm jealous. Jealous. Because I have the COVID vaccine. Oh, did you? Yes, it does, too. So I was a little a little exhausted. So
Michelle Lynne 26:53
my husband slept for like 18 hours straight after Pfizer. What do you have? I had
Beth Bender 26:58
Maderna said yesterday I was I was napping a lot yesterday. That
Michelle Lynne 27:02
is awesome. So I had the last dose last week. My I didn't feel any. It was Friday. I didn't feel any secondary. Anything. My arm was spread and hot for three days
Beth Bender 27:17
hurt. Yes. Yeah. Didn't
Michelle Lynne 27:18
it minor? Yeah,
Beth Bender 27:21
it was very strange. Strange sensation. Definitely
Michelle Lynne 27:23
tender. Glad it's done. Oh, I can hug you now officially. Yes. What did you want to be when you were growing up?
Beth Bender 27:31
I'm a teacher.
Michelle Lynne 27:34
And that's kind of what you're doing now. gathering your flocks and teaching chocolate chip or oatmeal cookie? Chocolate
Beth Bender 27:40
chip? Oh, m&m actually, but you didn't give me like
Michelle Lynne 27:45
why No. Book
Beth Bender 27:47
was actually my for I have my COVID shot as a gift to myself. I ordered from Tish treats. A fool does an m&m cookies. And over the course of two and a half days I have finished them all. So there's
Michelle Lynne 27:57
many reasons we're friends. If you could have one superpower, other than being able to eat all those cookies and still look as good as you do, what would your superpower be? Oh my gosh, that's a hard one. I'm also stupid. I Oh, do you tell? Oh, that would be fun.
Beth Bender 28:21
Oh, when I like when I was little I always had this recurring dream that I was flying. And I used to be so disappointed when I would wake up from the dream. And I'd be like, Oh, well, Dan, that was really fun. And now I can't do it. So I've always thought it would be really fun to just be able to like flap my wings and get anywhere I want. Maybe that's I don't know. I was gonna
Michelle Lynne 28:41
say so. So you're thinking flying like a duck not flying. Like from place to place from an efficiency standpoint. Like for this fun?
Beth Bender 28:48
Why? I just want to I just want to, I just want to fly and love that.
Michelle Lynne 28:52
Did you ever read the book? Jonathan Livingston Seagull? No, back in the 70s or 80s. It's written from the perspective of a seagull. Oh, I
Beth Bender 28:59
would love that. Okay, I'm
Michelle Lynne 29:00
gonna totally when I met Richard Bach, Jonathan Livingston Seagull. I remember my daddy reading it to me when I was in elementary school. I just read and I went, I went back and read it as an adult. So all right, well, this has been so much fun. I'd love to spend like another 30 minutes but I like to respect our listeners time. Oh, one more question. Yes. Cake or cake or pie? Cake. Cake. Yeah. Okay, now I'm getting hungry. So thank you. Thank you so much for being on the show. I know that our listeners have loved everything that you've shared. Well,
Beth Bender 29:37
I appreciate you having me on and and love this industry as I know you do. And you're doing so many great things for this industry. And I just I love seeing all your success and and all your help that you give so well. Now
Michelle Lynne 29:49
I'm blushing. Tell everybody, how can they connect with you?
Beth Bender 29:53
You can go to our website, the Dev agency.com Or you can go to our Instagram count, you can find everything there. And
Michelle Lynne 30:02
what is the what is the it's a handle. It's at the dev agency. Easy enough. And I will put all of this in the show notes. So if anybody wants to call and connect with Beth, and find out what services they offer, whether it's tomorrow, or whether it's a year from now as your as your business grows, or take her advice and get one of the integrated systems and find out who can help you with that, that solution as well. So for those of you who can benefit from even more resources surrounding the business of running your interior design business, join my growing community on Facebook private group, it is called the interior designers business Launchpad. We hop in there weekly, and I give free, free live trainings, Wednesdays Central Standard Time. So Oh, and don't forget to leave a review anywhere you're catching this podcast, please, because it definitely helps us keep relevant. So thank you, listeners for your time. We will see you again soon. Hey, y'all. If you love the show and find it useful, I would really appreciate it if you would share with your friends and followers. And if you like what you're hearing, want to put a face with the name and get even more business advice than join me in my Facebook group. The interior designers business launch pad. Yeah, I know it's Facebook, but just come on in for the training and then leave without scrolling your feet. It's fine. I promise you'll enjoy it. And finally, I hear it's good for business to get ratings on your podcast. So please drop yours on whatever platform you use to listen to this. We're all about community over competition. So let's work on elevating our industry, one designer at a time. See you next time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
