Michelle Lynne 0:02
Welcome to design for the creative mind, a podcast for interior designers and creative entrepreneurs to run their business with purpose, efficiency and passion. Because, well, every design is different, the process should remain the same. Prepare yourself for some good conversations with amazing guests, a dash of Jesus and a touch of the woowoo. And probably a swear word or two. If you're ready to stop trading your time for money, and enjoy your interior design business. You are in the right place. I'm your host, Michelle Lynn.
All right, welcome back to the podcast, everyone. I'm so happier today. I happen to have a friend of mine who I met through Instagram and we have met in person and our like long lost long lost sisters from another mister, I would say Gil Maloof is an abstract artist in Dallas. And I'm just so honored to have her here because I actually have a piece of art in her in my house. I love the work that she's done. And we want to talk today about how to work with an artist commissioning art, or just purchasing what they've already created, walking your clients through the details and so forth. So, Jill, thank you so much for being here. Great to be here. Thanks for so oh my gosh, I'm so excited. So, Jill, let's just let's just start with how, how did you get started in this business I'm gonna I'm gonna let the listeners in on a little secret is that Jill is actually an attorney by day. And then she turns into an artist by night. And maybe it's not day at night. But she's got two hats that she wears. And I think that that might be why we're friends. The left side of the brain and the right side of the brain are just always arguing. So like you get my quirky humor.
Jill Malouf 2:11
I do I do. kind of dorky.
Michelle Lynne 2:16
It's part of our job. So but how did you get started as an artist like this gorgeous, amazing art that you've created? Where did it come from?
Jill Malouf 2:24
I have always had this creative longing. And we all needed creative outlets. And if you haven't been doing creative things or design all your life, you know, it always comes out in weird ways. And it got to a point where I was ambushing friends by going to their houses when they were out of town and I would connect with their house sitter. And I would just rearrange all their furniture and hang art and do things for them. And I, you know, I've always enjoyed things like art. And so I picked up a paintbrush taught myself, really just watched some YouTube videos, and had no idea what I was doing. But then once I started, I loved it and never went back.
Michelle Lynne 3:11
Yeah, that's kind of how I started my design business to just when you know, you know. And if you guys, I'll have all of Jill's contact information in the show notes. But you guys have to check out her wickedly talented art. It's amazing. What would Jill what's the favorite part of painting? Like, is it when it hangs in somebody's house? Or is it the creation of it is when you get in the flow or something else.
Jill Malouf 3:39
I think like anything you enjoy doing, it really just absorbs you and takes you away. But then it's this personal connection when someone chooses my art for their home. It's such an honor, and I love that I can give people daily enjoyment. Yeah,
Michelle Lynne 3:54
I love walking past your piece in my house. And in fact, y'all, Jill took it out of her office and gave it to me. Like, I'm so honored, and it's just so quirky and fun and beautiful. And I'll have to put it up on Instagram, you guys will see it. So let's let's dive into like how designers can use not just you because although what let me let me know that you were just telling me that you do work with designers from all around the country. So you guys can work with Jill directly. But also we want to take the fear out of working with an artist you know if you're if there's any sort of intimidation about how to commission we're here to break that down and just make it enjoyable for you and your client. Y'all this podcast episode was made possible in part by foyer, a lightning fast interior design software that creates photo realistic renderings. I'm now Not kidding, you can barely tell that it's not a real room. So why leave your beautiful designs up to the imagination of your client, when you can show them what their space is going to look like, you will sign more clients and get more approvals with the software. It's powered by artificial intelligence, and a whole vouch for its ease. Because if I can do it, anybody can. Because y'all know that my design team are the ones who do all the work, find [email protected], as well as in the show notes. I know why we've commissioned custom artwork for clients. But Jill, what, from the opposite side of the table as an artist? Why should designers commission custom artwork for their clients?
Jill Malouf 5:45
Well, you know, if you're doing a presentation for your client, or you or you're in a job with them, one of the things that sometimes you probably encounter is as a designer, that a client may say, Oh, I've got this great piece of art and jewelry for my grandmother. And I really want to write in the middle of the wall. And, you know, maybe you sort of your heart just sinks, because once you see it, it has nothing to do with what your vision is. So what I help designers do, and collectors is just kind of help them create their overall vision. And so what I encourage designers to do, is to really get your clients excited about the idea of doing a piece of art just for them, and not putting it at the end of the budget, because you don't want that to be cut at the end, you know, when things have to get adjusted. And you know, by doing that you really get your client involved in it, and the more fun they have. And believe me, I have found that everybody loves to collaborate on a piece of art. And it's fun for them, it's active. And then I've even had clients say, gosh, you know, we did the room, but I wish we we didn't do the art, we credit from the budget, I wish we'd done it years before. So that is why I think you can help fulfill your whole design. Through art.
Michelle Lynne 7:07
Yes, we've had a situation where the client didn't want to pay for the art. And what we did is we went and borrowed a piece of art. And this was before I knew we borrowed a piece of art from from the artist and hung it for our photographs. And she was like, ah, that should have should have gone that. So it's so true, because it just finished it does just finish the space.
Jill Malouf 7:32
And so you might feel how's it enjoyment? No, no, no, you're creating this unique, you know, it's part of your unique vision. And that's why they're hiring you as a designer, because you know, you have, you know, they're creating this look, and you're helping them and give them this beautiful space that they can really love, especially people spending more time.
Michelle Lynne 7:53
Well, and you also brought up budget. So when it comes to commissioning a piece, is it more expensive, less expensive? Like is it cost prohibitive compared to if you were to go buy a piece of art at? I don't know, Z galleries is where a lot of our clients are like, Hey, we could just go to the gallery and get smart. I'm like, No, you cannot. Or Wendover or something like that. But how much more expensive? Is it to enlist a professional to do it? Right?
Jill Malouf 8:27
Well, um, you know, it's usually a lot of artists will offer a designer discount. So if you are a client working with a designer, then you know, you get a discount there and your designer can, you know, be involved as much involved in the process of commissioning a piece as you want as a client or not. And then, you know, for the designers, there is kind of a, okay, I'm gonna teach you a word you have to know it's sure clay it's GIC. L
Michelle Lynne 8:52
oh my god,
Jill Malouf 8:53
I never dance fancy.
But, um, you know, first of all, if you know how to pronounce that word, you're ahead of the game. But actually, it is just a fancy way of saying it's an art print. And so what some artists won't tell you is that they may if you see a piece you like if there's and if it's available, you can ask them would they do a print or is it clay of it and they can print it on canvas, they can print it on paper, and that's a that can be a budget friendly solution for a client that maybe doesn't have the money for you know, a truly original piece of art. But another secret is that some artists will even be willing to hand sign it but you know a print or even handed what's called Hand Embellished for the actually touch up and add a little bit of paint. So you know you can in a way customize. I'm sending it even a better budget value but you know, what I tell clients is that a an original piece of art truly as an investment a lot of people do pass these down them down for generations, like you know that inheriting something from your grandmother. And you know, especially if it's a piece of art you love He will stay with you for years or decades and then go from home to home. So it's
Michelle Lynne 10:05
it's like, the art that I've, as I've grown up, I guess you could say, as I've grown into more of my identity as an adult, the pieces of art that just smack me. And like, I have to have that, like, I just have to have that. And it's just been such a fun way to walk down the hall. And just and feel that little bit of happiness, there's, there's, there's nothing that touches you the same way as the art. Like, I love my couch, right? I love my table, I love my rug, but my the art just touches you differently in the soul.
Jill Malouf 10:42
And that is the number one reason by people why people buy art is this feeling that they get from it, this partial connection that they feel, you know, to the painting or even to the artists that they know something about the artist. Another secret is that men especially really love to get involved. In the art commissioning process. Men have definite opinions about art, they know what they like, they don't like they may not have any clue about sofas and other things that you guys are doing. And it definitely, you know, Bill, they'll tell you and I even, you know, like I did a recent commission for a bachelor. And he and I went back and forth back and forth, just really kind of working off of each other was a great collaboration. And it really invested him in it. And he got very excited for the final product. And so how
Michelle Lynne 11:31
does that how does that process work? Like, what is the commission process?
Jill Malouf 11:35
Well, I um, so what I do is I tell clients, send me a picture of your room of your wall. And if you're not even sure where you want it, just give me some give me different angles, different pictures, I will do in virtual reality, you know, a mock up of some of my other pieces of art, just so you can get an idea for this field or colors. And then you know, we can, you know, do a new piece that's within that same mood, or we can tweak it and go differently. I do abstract landscapes and seascapes and things like that. And if we did do a horse or a portrait, you know, I could refer them to, you know, certainly firms or a number of other artists. But um, you know, and then you can see actually, in your own space, what it looks like, this is a huge invaluable tool for designers, they Yes,
Michelle Lynne 12:22
love. And that's, it's so true, because we do that for our clients, like, here's what your room is going to look like. And then working with you being able to just drop it into our design. And we can kind of go through the process, even with the client saying this one, or this one, or this one, or this one is just such a nice benefit, you don't have to trust your gut that it's going to work,
Jill Malouf 12:45
right. And then I love it when designers will give me fabric samples or even specific colors. And so we can incorporate anything like that into a painting. And you know, I even helped designers, then the number one question I get asked by designers is which side should it be, which, you know, is interesting, but I think it's great to have that kind of input, you know, both ways. And so you know, everybody knows the painters tape trick right on the wall where you put your statement, and you know, you kind of make a decision about how big is going to be but that's where virtual reality really helps. So you can see the scale.
Michelle Lynne 13:25
I love that I love that it's it's mixing art with science,
Jill Malouf 13:29
right? Let's
Michelle Lynne 13:33
so let's say somebody in the audience isn't comfortable working with somebody outside of their outside of their city, and so they couldn't work they don't feel comfortable working with you directly. How would they how would you suggest them going about finding artists in their own area that they might want to work with?
Jill Malouf 13:55
You would well as a designer, you would certainly want to ask other designers to you know what artists have you used you know, who's easy to work with? And you know, the the number one thing I think that anyone should look for in an artist in determining whether to hire that person or not to do a commission is to ask them one question and the you know, the question is do you love doing Commission's and if the artist gives an unequivocal yes I love doing commissions. Great, you know, if not, you might want to think twice because there is a there is kind of a dirty secret that some artists don't like doing Commission's that they will do. And, you know, I think you want the artists to love the process and love what they're doing as much as the person who's going to be getting at least I do
Michelle Lynne 14:43
well and as much as us as designers love our job. Like our contractors that we hire to just build custom cabinetry or do some unique millwork or whatever. They love their job and I'm like okay, well that sounds kind of boring, but I'm cool. How'd you enjoy doing it because we enjoy doing what we do, and we want that passion behind it. So I think that's a really good point from an art from an artist standpoint, is you want somebody who is enthusiastic and really wanting to create something of beauty for the end user.
Jill Malouf 15:18
Right? And, you know, you'll want to, you know, also look, of course, at Instagram, Pinterest is also a wonderful way to get ideas and inspiration and also to find artists. But if you're trying to find somebody locally, I think your first stop would be other designers, and then Instagram. And yeah, certainly, if anybody wants to contact me, you know, for referral. I mean, if you're looking for a specific kind of piece of, you know, if I don't, if it's not within my skill set, I would, I certainly know, a bunch of artists in town that are in the Dallas area, and, you know, throughout the country, and I guess maybe also to back up on the the conditioning process that we talked about virtual reality to kind of help envision, but just do you want to get into maybe some of the nitty gritty of how it actually works, how the commission process works. Yeah,
Michelle Lynne 16:07
so if if I'm Debbie designer, not my Debbie, but Aw, designer wanted to commission a piece. And let's just say she's local, or she's not local? How do you go about doing that? Well,
Jill Malouf 16:21
um, you know, once you find the artists, then, you know, I, of course, being a lawyer, too, I like having a contract, because I think it really does help set expectations. And so
Michelle Lynne 16:35
that's what I teach designers is like, it's not a hobby, it's a job, it's a profession, you need to have a professional contract, and make sure that all parties are covered.
Jill Malouf 16:46
Now, I don't know many artists, honestly, when I offered to give them a, you know, some tips on writing contracts. Most of them don't have contracts. So you know, what, here's the top three things I would look for, you know, if you're a designer, or a client looking for a piece of art, is to make sure that, you know, pricing is in their timeline. And basically, you know, how many changes are going to be permitted? Those are kind of three the biggies. And that's funny, that's like my design contract? Well, I'm gonna add the first one to my list of three, which, you know, and then also, let's spell out things like, you know, how does the piece get delivered? Or who pays for shipping? And, you know, is the artist going to frame the piece? Or is that the clients responsibility, things like that.
Michelle Lynne 17:37
Those are all details that would probably just get lost in the enthusiasm and excitement of creating such a pretty piece.
Jill Malouf 17:47
I think so my
Michelle Lynne 17:48
standpoint,
Jill Malouf 17:49
I think so. And, you know, as far as maybe drilling down on some of those that the timeline, you know, as a designer, you could from, from the time that you know, the colors are selected and overall feel and the inspiration photos are agreed upon, you know, from that date forward. Most orders usually require a deposit to be paid or require, for example, 50% down, and that's non refundable. And then, you know, from that point forward, it could be anywhere from, say, four weeks to, depending on how detailed the piece is, it could be up to four months, it really just depends on what else the artist has going on at the time. But,
you know, you would want to even you know, if it's a, especially if it's something where the client wants to be very hands on, you might want to specify the exact colors, you might want to specify, you know, or more something like warm or cool palettes. And so, you know, just for other artists, it kind of does help them keep from straying from what your vision is. And then, you know, I would want an artist I would look for, you know, a contract or look for an artist who would be willing to send some progress pictures. And most artists, and this is reasonable, most artists probably won't send them until the end or towards the end. But you know, you should be allowed to make some tweaks within reason. And that's what I've done, at least for my clients.
Michelle Lynne 19:12
Well, that may I also think that what we ask our clients to do is to step back and let us do what we do best. And that's design rooms, design homes. I also would suggest to any designer listening here, don't tell the artist how to do their job. Give them the look that you want, the basis that you want, and then let their creativity fly as well. Because you're the expert, not me.
Jill Malouf 19:40
The right and I'll tell you what, though, if it's the hardest commissions I had, they are the ones where someone says, oh, I don't know, just you decide. I don't know what I want. And that's usually why a designer usually has
Michelle Lynne 19:55
specific ideas. Yes, I think that that's true. It's like we're gonna This is what we're looking for. Here's the room, here's the fabric, here's the field, here's the inspiration. And here's kind of what I'm envisioning. And then going back and forth with you, as as as it develops,
Jill Malouf 20:11
right? And that actually really does help the artist and yeah, it makes sure that everybody is on the same page. So that the very end, you know, there's a piece that the client ends up loving.
Michelle Lynne 20:22
Well, that and it's definitely yes, as designers, sometimes we're control freaks. But my point is, is also to let that creativity fly from the artist. While being involved in the collaboration, it's a collaboration. Let me interrupt myself to take a quick moment to thank satinath Insurance Agency for sponsoring this episode of The designed for the creative mind podcast, their support and understanding of the interior design, decorating and home staging industries is unrivaled. Satin off understands what our businesses do, and they provide insurance that lets me sleep at night. Yep, this is the firm that I use. And they will do the same for your sleep habits. And your business too. They're more than an insurance agency, they are an extension of my business, they take care of the worry, because they are the experts, which allows me and my team breathing room to do what we do best designed beautiful spaces. You can find their contact information below in the show notes. Give them a call today. Now how does it work? If it's over zoom, and like you show me the picture, please show me the painting. And I like it. But this color on the screen is different. Like, would you ever send a sample like little canvas or something with the colors on it so that we could see it in person, I can show it to my client and say, Here we go. Yes. And
Jill Malouf 21:49
so sometimes what we'll do is I'll actually put paint on a pretty piece of paper in different colors that I think would look nice together, you know, and then send that actually mail it so that you know exactly what we're getting. Or you guys can always specify, you know, I want Benjamin Moore colonial blue or something.
Michelle Lynne 22:07
Yeah. Well, that that makes that makes sense. Because then you know what's on the wall across the way or whatever. But I love the fact that you would send the sample paint on a piece of paper, so that there's no questions because what we'll do with clients is we have when we give them their design presentation, here's this, here's your sofa fabric, here's a sample of the rug, here's the pillow, you see how these all work together. And it's nice for them to be able to see it in reality, because when we show them the design presentation up on the screen, it's always a different color than it is in person. So having that sample, here's the paint palette that we're going to use. Yes, that's approved. Okay, great, then we will commission it from here based on these paint samples is a it will take the worry out of all parties. Right.
Jill Malouf 22:58
And I think people and that's obviously where they're hiring you the designers there, it takes the Skerries away, if they, you know, the designer can be involved, certainly in the commissioning process. But really, I think the client is just sort of looking to you to make sure that is this normal is how the process works. Could someone explain it to me, just so they know what to expect, but I typically find that most clients love being able to work directly with me as an artist. And you know, maybe they'll run some questions by their designer. But you know, for the most part, once the designer when she was the designer, then you know, turn over their project to the artist, you know, I think some artists just kind of have a knack a way of working with clients really well, to be able to help them through the process
Michelle Lynne 23:47
and take Yeah, and and I think it also depends on the designer, because we would be alongside the client the entire way. So it would be a three party collaboration with the with you and the client leading us just in the background with any guidance. Now, I trust my client with you directly, because I know you well enough, but if it's somebody that I hadn't worked with before, I'd be like, Oh, no, I'm gonna stay there and babysit in case this case this artist goes gets a wild hair. And I think that that's when you develop the relationships, you can kind of hand it off that way. Yeah.
Jill Malouf 24:25
And you do kind of in also with that relationship, you know, artists understand that your pricing with your client is your proprietary mix, right. So at least eyes and artists will respect that. And so, you know, designers might want to go ahead and include like the regular retail price for the commission in their pricing sheet to their clients. And then they may have you know, an agreement with the artists that you know, there's a there's a disc count that's worked out as between them. And then some, some designers just don't mind going ahead and telling her, you know, and giving our client the artists pricing directly. And, you know, they work it out with their clients that way. So it would be helpful as a designer, if you do let the artist know upfront, what your pricing, you know, kind of what your fee structure is, and whether you know, you, that's something that, you know, should be held in discretion or not.
Michelle Lynne 25:28
That's a great point. That's a really great point, because all of us do it a little bit differently. So, right. So is there any piece of wisdom or advice that you would want to leave with our listeners, about working with an artist about commissioning a piece? Like?
Jill Malouf 25:49
Sure, you know, the, I think that the, it is a very personal choice. And I know that people, when you it's like a piece of music, when you see art, it tends to remind you of something like a moment in time, maybe you know, you bought a piece on vacation, or it was a gift to you by, you know, a loved one. And so aren't really does hold this sentimental connection to us, like, so few other things do. And so I think it is important to be really careful about the process, and to not hesitate to ask questions of the artist and make sure that you know, it's the right fit for your client.
Michelle Lynne 26:31
Yes, because everybody has a, like, you span a wide variety of looks. And I think you can encompass, but you can still tell it's a jille piece. And then there's other design. There's other artists that are like wild and bright, and so forth. And you can tell know that it's his or her piece. So it's fun to be able to look at, like in my own home and say, Oh, that brings me such joy. Because I remember how how I acquired that. I remember how much fun it was or how much I'd had to drink. I bought that. I can't believe I paid so much for it, but I love it. All right. So I love that Jill. And you know, I love to talk about all things business and about how this all ties in. But I also like to have a little bit of fun. Last segment is rapid fire. Whatever comes out of my mouth, and then whatever comes out of your mouth.
Jill Malouf 27:33
Okay, don't have to keep it clean.
Michelle Lynne 27:37
I do have that as a disclaimer in my intro somewhere. I think it says that. I love Jesus, but I swear a little so you're allowed to to Okay. And we can bleep out any F bombs. The rest is okay. All right. So let's see. frames,
Jill Malouf 27:53
the F that F word framing.
Michelle Lynne 27:57
Framing will not be bleeped out. Okay. All right. So what did you want to be when you were growing up?
Jill Malouf 28:02
Um, I think I always wanted to be a lawyer. My parents said that I presented them with a list in fifth grade and the 10 reasons why I should be a lawyer.
Michelle Lynne 28:12
You were already arguing for your case. How did you meet your husband?
Jill Malouf 28:19
We met through a
we call a blind date. But actually the person who introduced us is blind. So
Michelle Lynne 28:30
yeah, that is awesome. dog or cat? Dog. Red or white wine. White? Wait, I thought you were a red wine drinker. I'm sorry. I think that's just what we had when we had dinner. If you could have one superpower, what would it be?
Unknown Speaker 28:52
Oh God, I wish I had good hair
Michelle Lynne 29:00
any belly button or outie? Belly button? Any? Any? And what is your favorite ice cream?
Jill Malouf 29:06
Mint Chocolate Chip? Oh,
Michelle Lynne 29:09
yeah. Yeah, that takes me back. That takes me back. That actually takes me back to the color on my walls in the house that my husband and I first bought I think they were trying to get for that Restoration Hardware green that was really popular back in the day. It was totally mint chocolate chip. Oh, yeah. The ice cream is gone for sage. We're saying that's what it was. Funny. I remember. Phil, thank you so much for being on the show today. I think it's just a great way to lessen any intimidation that interior designers might have about commissioning a piece of art. It's not scary. You just reach out and say, Hey, this is what I'm looking for. Can you help me?
Jill Malouf 29:46
Perfect and I think it should be fun. Yeah,
Michelle Lynne 29:49
I totally agree. I just remember that back in the day. I had no clue where to start. And I didn't want to feel like an idiot. So hopefully this will help people overcome that little boundary that it's real. Really not intimidating at all right? Unless you get a unless you get a snooty artist, and then you don't want to work with him anyway. Yeah. So tell the audience how they can actually connect with you. Well,
Jill Malouf 30:15
I'm I'm on Facebook and Instagram, and Instagram is artists, Joe Mulu. Facebook is generally fine art, and also my website, Joe maloof.com. And that's jillmluf.com. Perfect.
Michelle Lynne 30:30
And I will have all of those links in the show notes as well. So I'll make sure everybody knows how to find Yes, so thank you so much. And for those of you who can benefit from even more resources surrounding the business of running your interior design business, join my growing community at Facebook's private group. It's facebook.com groups is the interior design business Launchpad. So until next time, thanks. Hey, y'all. If you love the show and find it useful, I would really appreciate it if you would share with your friends and followers. And if you like what you're hearing, want to put a face with a name and get even more business advice than join me in my Facebook group. The interior designers business launch pack. Yeah, I know it's Facebook, but just come on in for the training and then leave without scrolling your feet. It's fine. I promise you'll enjoy it. And finally, I hear it's good for business to get ratings on your podcast. So please drop yours on whatever platform you use to listen to this. We're all about community over competition. So let's work on elevating our industry, one designer at a time. See you next time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
