0:02
Welcome to design for the creative mind, a podcast for interior designers and creative entrepreneurs to run their business with purpose, efficiency and passion. Because while every design is different, the process should remain the same. Prepare yourself for some good conversations with amazing guests, a dash of Jesus and a touch of the woowoo and probably a swear word or two. If you're ready to stop trading your time for money and enjoy your interior design business. You are in the right place. I'm your host, Michelle Lynn.
0:48
Welcome back, everybody. Hello, hello. Hello. This is Michelle Lynn with the designed for the creative mind podcast. And I'm so excited. You're here. I'm looking forward to introducing you to and sharing some information with Jenica Dusic. She is our guest today. She is a virtual interior designer, mentor and educator. She is the founder of Jenica Dusic design and AI for interior designers. So Jenna, welcome. Hi.
1:19
Thanks for having me. So happy we could do this. Absolutely.
1:21
Well, Jen, I just want to ask how do like before we get into all of the details about AI and whatnot? How did you like get involved? How did you get started with AI because like, I just got introduced to chat GPT probably within the last six months, I'm kind of like, kind of kind of slow, but it feels like it's so new, but you are just all over it?
1:46
Well, I've always been kind of a techie. Um, you know, from college, when I was learning about SketchUp, back in 2007. And it had kind of just came out at that point, I was like visuals, this is my thing. You know, anything computer was never into the hand drafting can't draw to save my life. So I was always trying to be innovative with the types of visual graphics that we can produce on a computer. So after I kind of conquered the VR walkthrough tours and the 4k renders that are super realistic, I was like, oh, AI is a really cool thing. So let's check out that and you're not that far behind. It's really only take it off in the past year since it's been out. So you're okay. But then I was like, What can we do with this? And how can we adapt it? So before I launched AI for interior designers I explored for the entire year. And I just tested and tried to figure out everything that I could do.
2:44
And if I'm not mistaken, you have your own design firm. Yes. So you've you've taken it and applied it and probably guinea pigs with your own exactly content and so forth. Exactly. Interesting. That's so fun. So how do you use AI as a performance enhancer for your, your design business? Oh,
3:04
every everything.
3:07
We have time and a great audience Perfect,
3:09
perfect. I guess if we're going to start at, you know, obtaining new clients, that would be the marketing, and just the back end tools that we don't really love as interior designers, but we have to do to fill our pipeline. So I will produce a really beautiful image that I've either created for a client for conceptual, you know, visuals before we get to the design phase, and then I'll share that on social media. But what I can also do is grab hashtags that are relevant to that image into that post and use chat GBT to do things like that. So there's so many parts to that question.
3:48
Yeah, no kidding. Okay, so you're creating images on with AI. And so you put those in your social feed. And then you use chat GPT to come up with the tags. Yes. For that, the hashtags. And then you're using these images as a jumping off point with your design clients. That's right. Yep. That's a great way to mold dye to recycle. Yeah,
4:18
I don't like to waste anything if you're doing it and spending the time repurpose. Yeah,
4:22
that's, that's fantastic. Okay, so I'm curious. It's so the funny thing is, is that back in the day, and this is kind of going down a bunny trail. I honestly was not interested in starting a podcast. Okay, so I was just like, No, no, no, I've got enough things to do and so forth. But girl, I have just found that like, talking to people like yourself, who just are doing such innovative things like this has become a selfish endeavor. So now I'm like taking taking bad notes. So you are using chat GPT to create your hashtags. Yes. And are you using it to create your captions or anything like that? How does it know what you are? or, like what hashtags to generate? Well, okay, so
5:03
there's two parts to that I write all my captions, sometimes what I'll do is all, you know, I'll use like in the later scheduling app, there is an AI caption generator that's built into it. So sometimes I'll see what they have to say. But I do like the personal touch of like writing my own. So there's just certain things that I like as your voice. Yep, exactly. But what AI and, you know, chat GPT can do is it can actually look at an image and then describe that image to you. So I use it for my alt text for you know, stagnant posts on Instagram, but also for Pinterest for your alt text on Facebook. And then also if you save these to your website for all tech, right, so if you're not familiar with alt text, it's basically SEO optimization. So search engine friendly. If somebody were to search that in Google that will come up. That
5:56
is awesome. So what use what tools are you using every day as a designer? Like right now? That was your that was your marketing hat? And yeah, we cycle all the things. Yep.
6:07
Yep. So chat, GBT, which also has Dolly, which is their visual portion of this. So you can read on your website, perfect. So you can upgrade to plus, and then you'll get like, real time live GPT that pulls from the internet, if you don't upgrade that it's pulling from, like older information. So if you upgrade, you get Dolly. And so I'm using Jack GBT and Dolly and then I use mid journey. And then whatever AI has been baked into for all of the other little programs that I'm using,
6:37
so don't so basically, it's just don't be afraid, just get out there and try it. Absolutely. And then pay a little bit more for the chat. GPT if you want the good stuff,
6:47
20 bucks, it's so worth investment.
6:51
Okay, so I would imagine that a lot of people listening are thinking, Oh, my God, I can barely, like, navigate my own Instagram, much less coming up with all this AI stuff. Like, I've got a business I've got, I have to mark it, I have to do all the things. How would you say what would you say is the best way to start using AI? So it doesn't feel overwhelming.
7:14
Open check GPT and just ask it some questions like a magic eight ball, because it's fun. My mother in law is even using it just to you know, see answers to a random questions that she has. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah, it's that's in my seven year old uses it because if you download the app, you can do voice to voice the prompt, basically. So you don't even need to type anything. And my seven year old loves that. So that's fun. Yeah, chat. GPT is a great way to get started.
7:44
Okay, so how so? In a nutshell, you just open it, and I've got one, but I want to make sure that it's understood. It's a free account. You can just Google Chat GPT. And it'll take you to the website and it'll say, create an account or sign in or whatever. And then just go from there. Yep,
8:02
open AI is technically like the parent company of Chad GBT and Dolly. So if you're redirected to open ai.com, you're in the right location.
8:11
That's awesome. Okay, so we talked a little bit about content and marketing with creating the content using AI. So one of them was your Instagram post, and then using it as an inspiration for your client. So it's almost like a it's an AI moodboard. Like, here's this room, what do you think about it? How else do you use it as content or marketing materials? Yeah,
8:40
so I'm just trying to figure out, so is that a is there so many, um, blogging. So if you're going to blog, obviously, you're going to rewrite it, but it's great for prompting, and even writing on certain topics. And then as a design professional, we add to that, but it's a great place to start for that type of content.
9:03
So if you're sitting there looking at a, at a blank screen, instead of saying, I hate writing blogs or whatever, just cruise on over to your friend chat. GPT asked them for some help. And then you can fluff it and make it sound like yourself and probably fill in a few gaps. Yes,
9:19
yeah. Cuz it's general. It really is. So I mean, anybody could do it, but we are professionals and we need to give our two cents and it
9:27
has a voice. Like I you can read something now and say, Oh, that paragraph is Chet GPT read in this ever changing in this ever changing fast pace, blah, blah, blah. Oh, yeah. Okay, that one was not written from from scratch. That is awesome. So what is the fifth? Okay, so let's talk about the work that you do. So, you use AI for your interior design business, but you also teach Each. Can we dive into that a little bit? Because I love the fact that I don't think there's not there's not a lot of people out there teaching AI for design. So you've kind of got a head start in a corner on the market. So what are you doing in that realm?
10:16
Everything that I do for myself, so if I'm going to teach it, I've done it. I don't teach anything that I've never, you know, experienced or had a bad experience with. So everything is practical use. So my core classes on AI for interior designers covered the core fundamental programs that I'm using every day. So that would be chat, GPT, Dolly mid journey. And then I have another one coming out. That's typically not a core class, but it's print on demand. I know this is a podcast, but if this is a video later, I do have art behind me that was aI generated and all my pillows. I don't know if you can see them all. Those are all AI patterns. So I do custom work for my clients as
10:54
well. That's fun. That's a great idea. And what did okay, so let's talk about the business aspect of that too. Because that is revenue in your pocket. So you don't have to know how to draw. You created that. So y'all I'm sitting here looking at Jenna. And behind her she has this fun little wallpaper. Okay, but on top of that, she has this image that is ethereal. Is that the right word? It's kind of? Yeah, so it's water? colori? Yeah, it's really, it's fun. And I wouldn't have imagined that that would be aI created. But if that if you were the client, you would be buying that directly from me. So all of the proceeds come into my pocket. Exactly. Now, are you selling any of that anywhere else like on Etsy, or,
11:42
yeah, I have a little side business. It's called the Levinson home. And it's my website that has all my pillows and blankets, and you know, just home decor that I created in AI. But then I adapted the patterns in Photoshop, and created custom collections using, you know, the same hex code. So everything goes together. And then every time I do a client project, where I've got a series of pillows that I create for them, or artwork that goes with it, I'll upload it to the commerce site.
12:10
Oh, that's awesome. Y'all think about that. So you're so you're creative. I just love talking about different ways that you can make money. So you are creating a collection almost for your clients that might be a piece of art, with a hex code that ties in with the pillows that ties in with something else and whatnot. So you can take that sell it to the client, and then you put it up on the website as its own entity to purchase for the public. Yes. Okay. So you make money out of it. 100% from the client, and then you're making money off of what you already created to other people. Yes. It's freaking genius. And it's something that you love doing because it's creative. You're creating art, you're creating beauty.
12:57
Yeah, that's why I said, I was like, my, my side passion. Because, you know, some days, I'll just sit here and be like, I want to make some cool pillows today. And then I'll just put them on the web. Yeah,
13:06
that's fun. How was how can I ask? And we can edit this out if you don't want to answer but how's it going? Are you getting any traction on it? Yeah,
13:15
all my past clients for the past three months, I've I've done this for their projects. So admittedly, my website is slow, because I'm focusing on building AI for interior designers and my other stuff. So that's that, you know, my direct like marketing tool right now. Hopefully, by the end of the year, I'll be putting more more time into that. But in your spare time. Exactly. Exactly. So this is just kind of a fun thing for right now. But it is more of the direct client that has been purchasing all of these
13:45
things. Okay, gotcha. So you send your client to the website to get it. I
13:50
send them a quote, and then I ordered them. Yeah, we could bypass the website. That
13:55
is very cool. I've got my my wheels turning love that. Okay, so you've got your you've got your design, clients company, and then you have the AI for interior designers. And then you've got your little the little side hustle that could very well, you know, just take off here in the next year. What would you say is your favorite aspect of the work that you do? All around?
14:19
I love teaching. I've always loved teaching designers, just because I love to see what they do with the information because everybody's so different. So that's definitely my favorite, explore, be innovative, and then turn it over to the community and see how they interpret that.
14:35
I love that. And I think it's that speaks to my heart because I absolutely love empowering designers and women and just watching them blossom, but also it's just such a great way to elevate our entire industry. Yeah. Love, love, love it. Then Okay, on the flip side, what is the most difficult aspect of what you do?
15:00
finding the time to do it all. I have a seven year old and a two year old and I do this so that I can be with them and do stuff with them. So I need to sometimes be like, No, that's a hobby Jenna, like, go outside and be with her.
15:15
Oh my gosh, I understand that completely. Because I love just building all the things. And then it's like, okay, but hold on. It's Saturday, and we're sitting around the table, and I have my laptop. Right? Come on, Mom, get your ass out there. Yes, exactly. Oh, that's very fun. That is very fun. Um, see, what other questions do I want to ask you? I believe that a lot of designers might feel threatened by AI, and how clients may, gosh, replace us as designers with AI? What are your thoughts on that?
15:55
So coming from the design industry, I left my job in the corporate world furniture industry in 2015, to start my own virtual design company. And at that time, I was also working for some of the bigger ones that were out there. Nobody got it, right. So like everybody in the industry was kind of like, Oh, II design is cheap. And you know, like, they had a very bad connotation that came with it. And I was like, I don't care. I love it. I love working from home, I had my daughter soon after I got to stay and be with her. But you know, there's always going to be people that say, well, they're going to take clients away from us if we do that. And people said that with each design. And there's a certain client for a design, there's a certain client for luxury design, and then people in the middle. And I don't think that AI is going to take our jobs in any capacity. Yes, you're still going to have the people that want to explore and do it themselves. But AI can't execute, I can't find the exact product a I can't make it all come together in a feasible way. It's there for inspiration, but it's not going to get you from you know, the before to the actor. So we are very much still needed. I
17:05
think that's fantastic. So for those of you in the back row, hit, hit rewind, 15 seconds while you're listening and listen to that real fast. Yeah, it's I don't believe we can ever be replaced when there's a human touch that goes into interior design. And if somebody wants to design their home using AI, I don't think they were our clients to begin with. Yeah, they wouldn't want somebody leading them through the process, either ie design wise, or concierge handheld. So yeah, there's no need to be afraid. Imagine trying to bake a cake without a recipe, you kind of know what the ingredients are. But you don't know how to put it all together. After lots of hard work and trying different combinations, all you are left with is a sticky situation and a stomachache behave, running an interior design business gonna feel exactly that same way. That is why I created the interior design business bakery. This is a program that teaches you how to bake your interior design business cake and eat it too. If you don't want to figure out the hard way, and you want guidance to follow a recipe that has already been vetted. Someone that has already been there and done it and will help you do it too. Then check out the year long mentorship and coaching program, the interior design business bakery. If your interior design business revenue is below 300,000. Or if you're struggling to make a profit and keep your sanity, this is the only program for you. You can find that information at designed for the creative mind.com forward slash business dash bakery. Check it out. You won't regret it
19:07
how do you stay up to date with? I mean, I read something that, like aI teaches itself. And it evolves faster than fast because it teaches itself stuff. Yeah. Yeah. How do you stay up with it?
19:24
I keep my head down. So I don't get bogged down by all of the things that are out there. Like there's so many programs I could be teaching on right now and exploring right now. But I know what works for me and I know what works really well. And it's only getting better every day. So I'm going to focus on that right now. If there's some other things that crossed my desk, and I'm like, Oh, this is cool. I gotta check it out. I will but focusing on what's working and then slowly kind of getting into other things. That's what's kept me ahead of the game because I know those those programs inside and now at this point
19:57
that makes sense in that is great advice. In general, because personally, I'm a squirrel. I'm like, Oh, look at that shiny thing over there. Look at that shiny thing over there, like a squirrel on cocaine sometimes. Oh, look at that. Look at that. Look at that. And I know a lot of designers are the same thing, the same way we can always be looking at the grass is greener on the other side. But staying focused on the grass that we have in watering, it makes a huge difference as well. Because yeah, juggling two kids and all of the changes in AI and managing a business and staying profitable. And that's a lot. Yeah, so you could go down that bunny trail. So okay, so let me ask it. So shifting a little bit to more personal? Like, what, what do you want to spend more time doing?
20:49
I'm meeting people in person this year is actually something that's on my list. So I get to go to a lot of summits this year that I've been asked to speak at, um, and you know, one podcast and just kind of connect with everybody. And then all of the trade shows. So last year, you know, my son was one, I kind of had to slow it down a little bit. But this year, my whole motto is saying yes, because what's the worst that could happen? So I love that.
21:16
Absolutely. And there's so many designers out there that don't know what their options are. So getting out and meeting them and just spreading the word. Do you have a team? Or is it all you?
21:28
It's me. I did have a team. They were acquired when my company was purchased by my DOMA and 2022. And so they have joined that team, and they're fabulous at it. So I am actually looking to get an inter, because it's a lot
21:48
that makes that make sense. So when do you as a business owner? When do you think about the overall, like, long term or big picture strategy of your company, I
22:02
can only see an evolving, you know, it's keeping up with everything that's going on, like, that's my job, I will do that so that designers don't have to, and you can focus on what works for you. And so that's why, you know, we have monthly meetings, and I kind of checked out new tech that actually a lot of these AI, furniture companies and software companies have been reaching out to me personally to test their AI programs. So I'll go through and I'll see what's hot, and, you know, new techniques. And so keeping up with all of that is definitely going to be like the next step for everybody. And I'm happy to do it.
22:39
That's fine. I love what you said about it's more of watching the evolution of your business. And it kind of I would imagine it kind of goes parallel with some of the new tools that come up. Yes. So AI can't tell you what's coming down the pipeline. No, vaguely tell me 365 days from now, what will you be able to do?
23:05
That he doesn't know, maybe not sharing it?
23:09
So much for the crystal ball. Right. So what did you want to be when you were growing up? In interior design?
23:16
Did you already knew that from beginning again? That's really cool. Yeah, that is really cool.
23:22
I'm changing my bedroom. I am doing way more outside of the scope of design than I expected. But that's just because technology didn't exist in the 90s like this, but since then, and that's what I grew up. Yeah.
23:36
So if you've just kind of followed the path that was laid in front of you, yes. And then and then forged the path, because this is still relatively new in this industry? Very much. So what is the risk? Let's say what is a risk that you've taken in your career that has paid off?
23:55
I always take risks. I don't play it safe ever. Starting, like literally just starting when I started the design tribe community in 2018. Everybody told me not to and I did. And then from that just came so many opportunities and so many connections that I never thought were even possible working from home by myself in New York City never leaving my apartment. So
24:21
that makes sense. Okay, so, so that worked out for you. Is there any risk that you've taken that have not?
24:28
A few hires? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's what you learn.
24:33
Yep. Yeah. Need to ask a few more questions on the next interview. Yeah. That I can understand that completely. So okay, so you're, you're saying that you work from home, basically locked in your apartment in New York? I mean, theoretically, but then you also want to get out and meet more people. So are you would you say you're an introvert or an extrovert,
24:56
very much an introvert Intel. I'm comfortable. I'm Ben, I'm an extrovert. It's hard, weird, I
25:03
know that I can appreciate, what would you be doing right now, if you weren't doing what you're doing? Like anything in the world.
25:18
The second option was hairdresser. So that was like my backup, you know, like, if this wasn't something that I was going to pursue, I just love the creativity part of it. And the people and talking to people, so and
25:30
then it's just one on one. So it's not like you have to be extroverted. Yeah, crowd exactly makes sense. But it is it's such an artistic profession. Yeah, fine. So is there any book that you've read, that you would recommend? Whether it's business, personal development, fiction, nonfiction, any other things? What would you recommend, and this again, is where I go back to my little selfish taking notes. So I get good book recommendations.
26:03
I'm gonna be honest with you. This is so horrible for me to say, I cannot sit and read a lot of books. I just do not have like the capacity to do it. Um, so I read like articles, I read a ton of articles in short, little spurts. And yeah, a lot of full books. But I like to read biographies, just because people fascinate me. So yeah, that's what I like to do.
26:27
So where do you pick up your articles?
26:29
everywhere on the internet? So like, my Google setup, so like, all my preferences, and I'll just swipe to the left on my phone, and then it's all the the articles from my favorite places?
26:39
Oh, interesting. Okay, so share some of those favorite places. Okay. I mean, just because I'm, yeah, that's okay. Because I'm sure that there are, you know, other individuals who are the same way? Yeah. Either that or they're just audiobook, people on the shores. So the short articles are a great. It
26:57
is like Business Insider, like every news. Every like, I'm not biased. I like all the news channels. I read, you know, Forbes articles. I'm just kind of flipping through to see what's in my feed today. Yeah, I've got water articles. And then I watch a lot of YouTube videos. So I'm more visual.
27:15
I don't Yeah, sounds like
27:17
yeah, I've never really been ADHD. So I can't really focus on like sitting here and reading a book. But I can't watch it and totally absorb everything. So yeah,
27:29
no, that makes perfect sense. Okay, so the articles do you do? And YouTube? Like, what are you watching on YouTube? Just kind of
27:40
true crime. True Crime, but then also, like, non industry related tech companies. So I typically don't follow a lot of interior designers or anything like that on YouTube. I follow people from other industries that might have crossover. So I'm like AI companies. And yeah, I don't like to convolute anything that I'm sharing was something that I might have accidentally absorbed from somebody else in the industry. So I like to go to other places, learn from them, apply it to interior design, and then reteach it in a different way.
28:16
I love that. And the fact that you are continuing to go out and learn new things. I mean, if you're not learning, you're dying.
28:26
Yeah, so every day in the shower, I watch a YouTube video. And I learned something
28:35
Okay, so when do you shut it off? Like when do you turn your brain off? Um,
28:40
hopefully when I can fall asleep, but um, when I'm working I literally have to have silence I can't have you know anything on in the background. I can't listen to podcasts. Definitely not because then I'm focusing on that. But when I'm and I also started reading peloton, so that's a good 20 minutes out of my day.
29:02
That makes sense. Good. Good. Good. Yeah, I find that I have to literally take breaks from my business. Like there's times where I don't even I don't listen to business podcasts. I cannot scroll. I've got a couple of accounts on Instagram, but I can't scroll design or business. Like I like to scroll stupid stuff. Yeah. Or non related article type of take me down that bunny trail. Because sometimes my brain just gets so full with the business stuff that I can't shut it off. Yeah, I joke you talking about the peloton. The peloton. I have a personal trainer a few times a week and I show up there and I'm just like, thank the Lord. You get to think I'm just gonna sit here and yeah, you tell me what what rep are we on? Yeah, tell me how much to do and what to do because I don't want to think for these 45 minutes. Associate.
29:58
Yes. So, yes, yeah. Weekends, on the weekends, I try and shut it all off too, so that I can really be more present. Sometimes if you're like, you're just feeling the, you know, you need to create and you need to do something, then I will but you know, three weekends out of the month, I'm not doing anything business related. Don't even crack the computer.
30:21
Yeah, I can appreciate that there are those times it just it just happens. And it's like, I cannot shut this off. And I have to get this out of my head. And it's gonna be good. Yeah. Honey, will you please take the kid? Yeah, to the park. I'll come up for air soon. Exactly. That makes sense. But it's also on the other hand, like we were talking about earlier, I have to think it's important to pick and choose those moments where you tune out and tune out of the family and tune into your business when it's truly family time. Yeah, because I could honestly, like, I love my family. But I could I could be working pretty much all the time. Yeah,
30:58
I quit. I love it. Yeah.
31:03
That's it. So is there any piece of advice or wisdom that you would want to leave with our listeners, whether it's about business or AI, or whatever's sitting on your heart, don't feel
31:19
overwhelmed with all this technology. I know, it's so much if you haven't really cracked open any of these apps for AI, or you know, anything else that's out there. But just give it a second, like, go to play, just mess around with it. Nothing serious. And I promise it will honestly change your life like, which sounds so crazy. But it can take so many things off your plate without having to hire an assistant to do that, though, you know, there's a time and a place. But just start it. Just start it and have some fun without any expectations.
31:54
I think that's a great piece is no expectations. And login. It's free. If you don't like it, you can get your money back. Well, Jenna, tell the audience how they can connect how and where they can connect with you, whether they just want to see some of your work on the gram. And just like the suggestions, or getting involved in some of your classes, like hands on. Yeah,
32:20
so I'm on Instagram, I have AI for interior designers. So then not on there as much as they should be yet. But my primary account is Jenna dot could use IK. And so that's Instagram and then AI for interior. designers.com has live classes, but also self paced, so that you can learn all the core fundamentals to AI and how they apply to interior design. I've got some mini classes coming out for just like little things about marketing or little strategies to make your design process flow better. And I also have an AI innovators club that meets once a month and we just talked about the latest and greatest. And it's a nice little roundtable community where everybody can contribute and talk about how they're using AI in their business. Oh, that's fun.
33:05
Yeah, I'm gonna have to carve out some time. Sure. Well, I will make sure that all of those links and details are in the show notes. And if y'all are, let's see, what about how do I how do I want to sign off? Oh, I know how I want to sign off, y'all. I've got the interior designers Business Success Summit coming up in April. It's April 2 through the fifth. We're holding it in Dallas, Texas. And it is going to be amazing. Our theme this year is how to whip up profit in an uncertain market. And I've got some badass speakers, we're going to do tours of the Dallas Market Center. And just we were up leveling it this year, we're gonna have a lot of fun. So if you're interested head on over to designed for the creative mind.com Click on the button that says Summit. You're going to die and how inexpensive it is because I've dropped the price by Oh, more than 50%. So I heard y'all wow, people were saying it's a little too expensive. I don't know if I can swing it. So we brought the price way down and we've actually increased the content. So come join us in Dallas in April. And until then, thanks y'all for being here. I love you. I love this little audience. It is so much fun. It's not just my mom anymore, either. We actually have people listening. So thank you guys for tuning in. And we will catch you next time.
34:38
Thanks for having me.
34:39
Thanks, Jenna. Hey y'all. If you love the show and find it useful, I would really appreciate it if you would share with your friends and followers. And if you like what you're hearing, want to put a face with a name and get even more business advice. Then join me in my Facebook group. The interior designers business Launchpad. Yeah, I know it's Facebook, but just come on in for the training and then leave without scrolling your feet. It's fine. I promise you'll enjoy it. And finally, I hear it's good for business to get ratings on your podcast. So please drop yours on whatever platform you use to listen to this. We're all about community over competition. So let's work on elevating our industry, one designer at a time. See you next time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
