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Welcome to design for the creative mind, a podcast for interior designers and creative entrepreneurs to run their business with purpose, efficiency and passion. Because, well, every design is different, the process should remain the same. Prepare yourself for some good conversations with amazing guests, a dash of Jesus and a touch of the woowoo and probably a swear word or two. If you're ready to stop trading your time for money and enjoy your interior design business. You are in the right place. I'm your host, Michelle Lynn.
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Welcome back to the podcast everybody. Hello. Hello. I'm Michelle Lynn. And this is the design for the creative mind podcast. I'd like to introduce you to Daniel for Tato. Today, she helps a digital marketing agency in Toronto. Her team uses search engines to help businesses quintuple their website traffic and triple their sales inquiries. The agency specializes in the design and build industry. So she's definitely on the right podcast. Outside of the agency, Daniela also teaches courses and she writes about marketing. Daniela takes the best of what she's learned over the years and passes on the most meaningful parts through her team, clients and students. So whether it's in a meeting room, a classroom, or on a stage, Daniela is on a mission to make search engine marketing, less boring, less technical and mysterious, and instead, give it simplicity, creativity and humor. So I think you're speaking my language, Daniela, welcome to the podcast.
1:52
Thank you so much for having me.
1:54
Oh, I'm looking forward to this. So let's talk about search engine marketing. Translated. That's your website.
2:04
Yeah, it's how you show up on any platform that has a search bar. So typically, when we talk about SEO, we think of Google because Google has the most market share. And Google presents websites. So we think about how our website presents on Google. But it could also be, you know, SEO can also be applied to Instagram, to Pinterest, to Spotify. Anything that has a search bar? Oh,
2:30
interesting. Okay, so search engine optimization can be applied to anything that has a search bar, your home, see, we're only like a minute into this conversation, and I'm learning things. This is great. Okay, so the internet has been around for quite a while. Social media popped up, Gosh, 1520 years ago kind of took off. has that impacted? Or how has that changed? Let's say just the behaviors of consumers. Absolutely. So
3:04
the more fluent we we become in internet culture, and using technology, the more confident we are in making decisions on it and making purchasing decisions. So it used to be that you wouldn't spend money online that it was a shady thing to do is scammy. But over time, we're becoming more uncomfortable purchasing online. And pre pandemic, it used to be that you could buy certain things online, but not others, right? It's like, right, buy your groceries, you wouldn't buy jewelry online. You may not look for professional services online. But nowadays, it's becoming quite common. And the data backs us up. So if you go to a platform called Google Trends, it's this free tool, you can see how keyword searches have changed over time. So if we look at how many people are searching for the keyword interior designer near me, and you look at that in the past 20 years, you can see a drastic change in 2015. It used to be that about 300 people search for interior designer near me on average in the US not a lot and an average month. Now. There are 90,000 people searching every month for the keyword interior designer near me now mainly moly, yeah, it's a big difference. It's a big difference. So we are becoming a lot more comfortable and confident in searching for professional services like interior designers like architects, anything related to to renovation to design to build online and find providers that way. So as a business owner, this isn't helpful for you to know because you want to be easy to find, right? You want people to find your services to inquire. You don't always want to be chasing and not vice versa. You want people to come to you. And so in order for them to come to you, you need to know where they are. And so we're seeing that a lot more people are online, specifically on Google or social media, looking for your services. So yeah,
5:15
that's crazy. That is crazy how it has really skyrocketed 315. And now there's over 990 1000 90,000
5:25
On an average month, and then if you look more specifically into cities, then you'll get more accurate numbers or more specific numbers. Yeah, it's changed a lie. And I hear all the time interior designers and architects tell me, I've been in business for 20 years, for 10 years, I never had to market myself, it was just word of mouth. My website was, you know, it's pretty much abandoned. I had I don't even know remember the password to it. But now all these young yuppies are in the market they're taking. You know, they're in business. They're in competition, and they're doing their online, my customers are online, I need to be present. And so I hear it, and the data shows it that
6:06
makes sense and how so backing up just a little bit, how did you get involved in this line of business, I kind of just happened,
6:15
I started freelancing. And through word of mouth, I actually got found myself working with the industry. So my very first client was a landscape architect. And then she referred me to some people in her network. I have a big appreciation for design and art, I consider myself very creative person, I have a lot of hobbies, and I could talk for hours and hours without so so I, it was very easy for me to connect with, with people in the industry. And they kind of just came to me and I wanted to walk the talk. So if I'm helping people get clients online, I wanted to do the same for myself. And so I knew to do that I needed to position myself and an specialist or an expert to some kindness, the advice that I give to our own clients. And so I looked at the roster of clients, I had a lot of them were in the design and build industry. And I said, Alright, let's rock with this. So I started to specialize in that. And now if you search, like SEO agency or digital marketing agency for interior designers, or for architects and if you look for those types of keywords, we're on the first page. And that's the big way that weekend clients. There
7:26
you go practice what you preach. Exactly. Yeah, that makes sense. So what is the favorite? What what's your favorite part of your job?
7:34
Well, I think stuff like this, to be honest, I really love teaching. I love love teaching, whether that's speaking to you on a podcast, through articles that I write for industry publications, whether that's the team leading the team and supporting them, or teaching clients, I think that's I love to help people grow. And I get to do that through marketing, right, I get to help our clients market themselves become easy to find online, so that they can grow their businesses. And a big part of that is sharing knowledge and, and collaborating. And, you know, they tell me about their business and we solve problems together. And and I get to teach all, you know, I'm being kind of broad, but like this, now, I understand that, yeah, supporting people to grow, whatever that means. Whether that means do we get for you, or teaching you along the way is something that makes me feel alive and makes me feel helpful and useful in this world in it? Yeah, I love it. I love my job. I love what I do. I love Mondays, I say that.
8:37
I can appreciate that. And I can see it in your face. It's just like you light up talking about supporting other other other professionals. Yeah, like you do what you do best and support us as we do what we do best. Okay. So, as a designer, yeah. How to Teach Me How should we go about creating a marketing strategy? Like what does that look like? And what is it like? What is a marketing strategy? How do I start all the things? So
9:05
whenever I'm in a roomful of designers, I get this question a lot. I get the question. Daniella, I only have five hours a week or $30,000 or $10,000. Whatever your budget is, how do I market myself? What do I do with this? Should I be on social media or Google? Should I do PR or an email newsletter? Should I do ads or sponsor a podcast like this? What do I do? How do I get people knocking on my door? emailing me calling me knowing that knowing our name knowing that we exist, and I think this is the wrong question to ask. I think the question shouldn't be, you know which channel as you use, it should be who are my customers? When you ask yourself that question, you find yourself going on a rabbit hole Yeah, and those answers will help you answer the first question like, where should you be spending your time and money? So I always say, instead of asking, what marketing channels should I be using? Should I be using social media, Google, instead, ask yourself, Who are my target customers? Where are they online and offline? Where do they spend their time? And the third, how do they go about making decisions in relation to my product or service? Begin
10:29
with the end in mind? And then work back where they're going to hang out?
10:34
Yeah. And the most common mistake people make when they and when they try to answer these questions is they go way too broad. It's like anyone that has money. It's not specific enough.
10:44
Or an ugly house. Yeah. Yes, that makes sense.
10:48
Yeah. So getting really specific in this kind does require some soul searching and you figuring out what do you want to stand out for? What kind of work do you want to keep doing? And who are those clients that are going to give you the kind of work that you want to keep doing? So you? There's like, if you imagine a Venn diagram, you have to ask yourself about your target customers. But then also ask yourself, what kind of business do you want to create? What kind of services do you want to provide and projects? And then look at that, that middle section where they intersect? And then yeah, and then from there, your marketing strategy will unfold? And I can we can talk about that today? Yeah, okay. So
11:25
I want to, yes, I do want to go down that track, as well. But I also want what you said, I think is very profound. And I wonder sometimes if our listeners understand that, it's our business, it's our choice, what we want it to look like. And sometimes I think that, and I can speak for myself when I was younger, in business, is that I thought I just needed to serve everybody. And that had me bouncing around like a ping pong ball, and really not in any control of my own destiny or my own business. So defining who our ideal client profile is, is great. But defining what our business looks like, also, like, do you want it to be a multimillion dollar business? Or do you just want it to be something that you can express your creativity with and still make a profit? Like, what does that look like? I think that's so important, too. I'm, I'm so glad you say that so early in your process?
12:25
Yeah, it. When we start with a new client, the first thing we do is we ask the very, very first question, like on the onboarding call is, why did you start this company? And what are you trying to do?
12:40
What's your
12:41
why? Because it's hard.
12:42
It's hard to say, oh, my gosh, I Yeah. My ad? Yes. Try putting that in words. Yeah.
12:49
So getting the client to articulate your their why? And what do they want to stand out for? really sets the tone so that when we ask the questions about their target customer, when we do that exercise, it they've already are in that mindset, they didn't kind of find and so, you know, oftentimes people say like, who are my existing customers? Or who my target customers? And I say, Well, you know, let's talk about your target customers. Let's talk about the people that you want more of these should be should be people that you've already worked with, and not like imaginary people, right? You should have knowledge about them. But yeah, think about the people that you want to work with the kind of projects you want to do more of, what do you want to attract and bring more into your life into your business? What direction do you want to take this in? What's the vision, and let's work towards that as part of your marketing strategy. Yeah, and
13:44
I think eight and if you're, if you're newer in business, or if you were like I was, and I just kind of floundered around and tried to serve all the people and you have to narrow it down. I think that you almost do have to make it up from scratch. You don't have to manifest, you have to manifest who you want it to be. And it might be pieces of client a and pieces of client B and pieces of clients see that you kind of merge together to create your ideal client. But I think you have to be able to draw that person out. And in my opinion, I do think that you kind of have to they have to be a made up person at first.
14:20
At first, but it needs to be tested. Right? Like you need to absolutely yeah. Then go out meet those people learn about them. And then cuz yeah, Mark, do you want? Yeah, exactly. You might think that they're great. And then you start working with them, and they're a nightmare.
14:37
Oh, my gosh, yes. I we have redefined our ideal client. Every few years as we get more sophisticated. I think our clients get more sophisticated,
14:46
right. But yeah, well, when creating a marketing strategy, I think the client, our client should be pretty confident of who they are like they should be thinking of clients in mind. We don't want them to be completely made up like it Do we want to even speak to them? We want to have case name.
15:04
Yeah, exactly. And you're right, though, because who you think you want to work with may not be the actual best person to work with. It's kind of like dating. It's like the guys that I dated before my husband, I thought I would have married him. Thank the Lord. I didn't, right. That would have backfired. It's the same thing with clients, you make up these ideal thoughts in your mind? And they just yeah, not that oh, it's quite
15:31
real. Yeah. Yeah, they part of what we do is helping clients identify what do you want to be known for? In marketing, we call this your positioning. So I think figuring out your specialization, whether that's a vertical or horizontal, or even just a geographic location, helps answer the question, call your target customers. And then when you can answer that question, then you can create your marketing strategy, then you can figure out if you should be spending your marketing dollars and hours in Google or
16:02
social media. What's the difference? What's the difference? Let's Yeah, let's let's go down that track. Because I think that because I love that because so many times in, in my mind, I'm like, oh, we need to do some Facebook ads, we need to do this that we have. And then I forget, don't forget Google ads. So let's talk about the difference of you know, who uses Google Ads successfully? Who should who uses social media? Like, what does that look like? Especially for the individuals who's who is listening today, wondering where they should spend their money? Mm hmm. Like, what What difference do what differentiates the two paths?
16:44
And I answered this question with a story. Absolutely. Okay. Yes. So a few years ago, we worked with a client named Jude, she's an interior designer, and has a firm called Sansa interiors, based out of Toronto. And after working with her for a year, by the end of that year, she built her team to be four employees. She was getting about 20 inquiries a month. And to her projects were being featured in magazines like Casa Vogue, or design milk publications across North America and Europe. That was the result that she got after working with us for for about a year. But before we were working together, she was doing marketing on her own by it was a bit scattered, she felt kind of lost, she was doing a little bit of everything, and not seeing a lot of traction with it. So she hired some interns and freelancers to help her post on social media. So she was pretty regular on Instagram. She was also spending a little $500 a month on Google ads, figuring it out on her own, she was reaching out to editors and magazines and pitching a few times every month when she had time, you know, kind of in between here, but not getting responses, but then also not having time to like, ask the question, why isn't this getting a response? Should I follow up? Should I change the hook of the story? And, and she was writing blog posts, but she really didn't know what she was doing she. And I don't mean that disappointed
18:26
to be dismissed. That makes perfect sense. As a business owner, you have to wear so many hats. You're not necessarily good at most of them. Right?
18:33
But she was I applaud her that she was doing it. She was putting in the time, the effort, the money, it was just a little bit of everywhere. And she she came to us, she's like, I'm doing all these things, but I'm not doing any of them tremendously well, because I'm doing a little bit of everything right? If I were to, because I don't know what to do, I'm doing all of them hoping that if I do a little bit of everything, then the market will give me feedback. And then I will know where to put my efforts. But I'm not seeing anything so. So what we did was I at first identify like, what kind of projects do you want to do more of, and she's gonna want to do a lot more. I want to do a whole old homes I want to do full gut renovations, especially for heritage homes, but old homes in general, I want to do the whole thing. I don't want to just do kitchens or bathrooms any more. Or even the full just the floor I wanted to the entire house. And I wanted to be within the Greater Toronto Area. So then we worked backwards, okay, for those people that are purchasing, or you know, reaching out to you, why are they reaching out to you at this time? And where do they spend their time online or offline? Are they talking to real estate agents? Are they going to trade shows? Are they listening to podcasts? Are they googling you? Are they are they googling for an interior designer? Are they on social media? So then from there, we worked a little bit backwards. We got to speak to some of our customers, we ask them these questions they told us which podcasts they listen to and where they do their research. And we found out that a lot of our customers are searching on Google. And this fits what we call the online customer journey. Typically, after people buy a home, they're thinking, you know, they're thinking about doing renovations, but they're not quite sure how they want to go about it. So they're going on Pinterest, they're looking on social media, they're looking through magazines, getting ideas, and you find them the language that they're using the hashtags that keywords are like inspiration, ideas, before and after minimalist design. It's very, very broad. And you have a lot of people in this phase searching for it. So when you look at keyword data or hashtags, you see large numbers, but intention to buy is very low. Instead, it's when people go to Facebook groups forums, they search on Google, specifically the keywords interior designer near me, or a specific type of interior design. Oh, questions like, How much does it cost to renovate a house in Manhattan? How much time does it take? Do I need a permit? The difference between a decorator and designer, when you see people are asking questions like this. And you can tell them the language, it's a lot more direct. They're reading blog posts, articles in magazines, or listening to podcasts, or asking their peers and going to shows. When people do that, then we know that, okay, they're serious about looking for an interior designer, they're looking for professional help. And it's at this stage that we need to target people. So we worked backwards, and we created a marketing strategy that would attract more of these people that have these bolt homes that need full on renovations. And we're interested in hiring a professional to do it for them. So from that, we were able to identify that creating content on her platform, pitching her to speak on podcasts, and making the content accessible on Google. So making herself easy to find online, specifically on Google, or digital PR methods was the best way for her to find clients. Not really on social media.
22:26
Interesting. And I think that, because designers spend so much time on social media, you know, we're hunting through it for inspiration all the time. Yeah, oftentimes, we just make the or I can't say for everybody, I guess I can say for myself and a small group of people that I discuss it with. We just assumed that that's where our clients are this on the ground. They
22:49
are but they I mean, they are about ready to buy. Exactly, exactly.
22:55
Small distinction. So do you from A, if you were to do paid ads, which do you start with paid ads? Well, no, I guess you don't start you would do both. I do suggest doing both because people start their journey. You called it the online journey. Yeah, they start their journey, let's say social media, and then they get more targeted and more specific. And then they go to Google, and then they find you.
23:20
Exactly. So it's it starts off with what we call the awareness stage, then this is the consideration. And the last is purchase. So the in the awareness stage, that's where people are looking for ideas for inspiration, they're going, the platforms that they're using are magazines, Google Images, Pinterest, Instagram, anything that's very visual, right? They might decide to DIY from that stage, or they might not do anything. But then afterwards, typically, if they're really interested, if they're serious, they go on to the consideration stage here. That's when people are, you know, asking questions about time costs, valuation specific needs, so they're going to articles, forums, podcasts, but it could also be social media accounts, Reddit, you know, these like long form, I would say more like YouTube type of social media that it's ational. And then the last stage is purchase so that someone has said, Okay, I've done all the research, I've done all this consideration, I'm ready to hire professional, it's just a matter of finding the right one. So now they're asking their personal network, they're looking at directories like house for example, or they're explicitly going to Google searching for interior designer near me or best interior designer in the city. So when we talk about the mark, like when you understand that's how customers typically look for a professional service, what you want to do is want you want to work backwards, so you want to go from the bottom of that triangle or that funnel the purchase stage, target people there before you start going up. So in the purchase stage, if you want to target people that are looking for, like interior designer near me, create a homepage or a Service page on your website that uses the keywords interior designer Toronto or interior designer Houston, and then optimize that page. So whenever someone searches for those keywords, your service page comes up, and then makes it very clear and prompt people to contact you right to bridge that gap. Once you have that, you can then run ads to support it.
25:25
Imagine trying to bake a cake without a recipe, you kind of know what the ingredients are, but you don't know how to put it all together. After lots of hard work and trying different combinations, all you are left with is a sticky situation and a stomachache behave. Running an interior design business can feel exactly that same way. That is why I created the interior design business bakery. This is a program that teaches you how to bake your interior design business cake and eat it too. If you don't want to figure out the hard way, and you want guidance to follow a recipe that has already been vetted, someone that has already been there and done it and will help you do it too. Then check out the year long mentorship and coaching program, the interior design business bakery. If your interior design business revenue is below 300,000. Or if you're struggling to make a profit and keep your sanity, this is the only program for you. You can find that information at designed for the creative mind.com forward slash business dash bakery, check it out, you won't regret it.
26:47
The next stage, you work your way back or you go backwards, right then you go to the consideration stage when people are considering hiring and designer but they need to be educated. That's when case studies portfolio pieces, blog posts, kind of these like thought leadership or expertise driven content can target those people. Again, you can optimize it for search. So if you write a blog post like June's case, she wrote a blog post about how to renovate heritage homes in Toronto. So it was a guide. And she answered common questions. And then every question was optimized for search. So if you search how to renovate Heritage Hall in Toronto, that blog post comes up. Right. So that's an example of how you can target people within the consideration stage working backwards. And then the last thing you can do is target people in the awareness stage right people that are looking for ideas, tricks, inspiration on social media visual ways, I would spend the least amount of your efforts there as a small business. If you're a large company, you have an entire marketing department. And you nurture people all throughout the that sales funnel that customer journey, go for it. But if you're a small business, you got to focus on the part that's going to bring you the most ROI. Bam
28:04
Skippy I want him to convert and hire me like put out put put that signature on the contract, Babe and write me a check.
28:11
Yeah, you want to be nurturing people for a year?
28:14
I mean, it commercial, it's
28:16
a lot more common. But in residential. Yeah, you want to work with people that are ready. Now.
28:21
That makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. Because for a variety of reasons that small business owners, we understand that. Okay, so trying to think of what else I want to ask. So going back to, you know, how did designers go about creating a marketing strategy, and we were talking about figuring out who you are and who you want to serve? Or who you want to be and who you want to serve? Like, what does it look like to work with you like, how much time and money should they should they plan on investing?
28:51
Yeah, so we have a program. It's a 12 month program. And it's not a fit for everyone. So we started a consultation with every inquiry that comes in, we do a one hour consultation, we go through their website, they we see is this a good fit? Can we really help you are your customers even on Google or looking on line for digital means. And then if we decide it's a good fit, so a typical partnership is 12 months long. The first month is the most intense, it's a lot of onboarding and getting everything set up. And then yeah, we create a process together, it's pretty rinse and repeat. That's the timeline. It's it's 12 months. And in terms of price point, it's ranges it ranges between 2500 to $5,000 a month, depending how much we're doing for you. So companies that already have internal marketing support. We don't charge as much because you can do a lot of it in in house and we are providing that kind of strategic consulting support right on there. We're filling in the gaps and companies that don't have any internal marketing support. You don't have a a marketing assistant or manager, then it's on the higher end, because we're doing it ourselves.
30:05
That makes sense. That makes sense. So why 12 months,
30:08
12 months, okay, so it's because the professional services like interior designers are, it's a very quality approach, right? It's like you're not, you're not selling T shirts and looking to sell to 200 customers a month, you may want 12 Really, really good clients really good projects. And that sales cycle takes a long time with, if you have a T shirt shop, you just need one person to come in, and then maybe within 20 minutes, you've made a purchase. But as an interior designer, it takes a long time for people to make a decision to work with you. And so the ROI takes a while. And so it's 12 months one because to see the ROI, but also because a sales process takes so long, it means that the marketing process takes a while like like people might be lurking your website for weeks or months before they actually reach out to you. So we need a while to build trust with consumers before they reach out to you. And before they they close that sale. And for us to measure the effectiveness of our of our work.
31:18
I think that makes perfect sense, I think. So often, we all want an immediate result, we want to see a quick, quick turnaround. But when it comes to marketing and creating your brand, per se, your online persona, it takes a little while. And then it gives you time to tweak things. Like I thought I wanted to work with so and so and Oh, holy cow, we we landed one and that one sucked. Let's tweak this a little bit.
31:46
Yeah, there's a lot of experimentation. I always say I heard once heard someone say like, take the credit from your bank when you don't need it, or the bank gives you credit when you don't need it. Right? So take it accept it so that when you do need it, you have that credit, their marketing is a lot. It's very similar. You should market yourself when you don't need it the most. Because your marketing will really start to pay off when you need it the most. Amen
32:14
to that, and it doesn't hurt to go on a little bit of a waitlist. Yes, I can't start your project for the next three or six months, but people will wait. Yeah, surprisingly, it's amazing. Because you've already, I guess, earned their trust through all of the other efforts that you have put forth through your marketing. And that's hard
32:32
to do when you're when you're starting out when you're doing marketing for the first time. Or you're just starting your business out in the first few years. It's very common for people to find themselves in that feast or famine cycle. They only market Yes, they have no projects. And then once they do a little bit of marketing, they land a few projects. Now they're so busy helping their clients that they stop working on their own business. And then it and then you pay for it. You pay them yes.
33:01
Yes, putting the extra put in the extra time or once you start making the money hire a professional. Yes. Yeah. Don't neglect it. That makes sense. What so that's definitely a I would imagine a common pitfall. What are some other things that you see businesses doing when they when they put together their strategy or or maybe just not putting together an online marketing strategy? Yeah,
33:25
yeah, like you just said. Neglecting it when they're busy. neglecting their marketing or their business when they're busy is a common pitfall. Another one is copying other people's marketing strategies because it's trendy because you saw someone very successful do it, then you assume that it will work for you. Instead of asking yourself the questions, what do I want to do for my target customers? Where are they? Those are some really common pitfalls. Some Iowans not having a process like I got this kind of ties in with the the last point I just made is not having a you know, once you choose a channel or strategy, stick to it long enough, you know, three months is not long enough, six months or 12 months is more like it, stick to it long enough, be really dedicated. It's tough in the beginning, because you don't it takes a while for it to work right for you to get that validation. But stick to it and turn it into a process or rinse and repeat things so that you don't have to reinvent the wheel all the time. You don't have to run it on your own motivation is when you create a process, it becomes easier for you to know what to do every week or every month, it becomes easier for you to delegate. So you can move on to other things that you like. But yeah, I think turning it into a process as much as possible instead of like
34:55
throwing spaghetti on the wall every month. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:59
So I would, I would say that's another, like common reason why people don't follow through or their marketing is not successful.
35:08
And I think so I, your website has a really good example like you use the analogy of planting a seed and you grow the tree, and you have to fertilize it and so forth. It doesn't happen. Yeah, right. I think that that, from a business standpoint is one of the hardest things to be patient, it's hard, it's very hard. Yeah. Which is why hiring a professional is nice, because you can say, this is exactly the way it goes
35:33
in whether you work with us or any other professional, what I encourage people to do is to set out KPIs or some sort of milestones, so that, you know, if you're going in the right direction, or not, a professional should be able to tell you, you know, I can tell, I've been doing this so long, and working with so many this similar type of customers that within two or three weeks, I can know if this is if we're going on the right path or not, then two or three weeks of working with a client and be like, I don't think this is a good partnership. They're not dedicated to it, they don't have enough skin in the game, or, Oh, we're starting to create content and ranking you on Google. And the goal is just not picking up momentum. We can tell very, very quickly, because we work with so many the similar clients that have similar goals, we have this program. And so we have milestones, we have milestones at the 1430 6090 180 day mark. And so it doesn't always sometimes we hit those marks those milestones sooner sometimes a little bit later. But what we want to know is like, right, we're progressing. So at the 30 day mark, you're not going to see an ROI. But you should be on the bottom of the first page, you should be ranking number 20, for example. Well, that's what you want to see when you start marketing for the first time or with a professional is that you're progressing towards an ROI, even if the ROI takes a full year to see,
36:59
you know, it's like working Yes, you build your muscles slowly, you might not see that you have you know, a little bicep until you've exercised it multiple
37:08
times. Exactly, exactly. Great analogy.
37:11
Oh, that's fun. So a lot of my audience, I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, y'all that are listening on social media send me a DM or something. But I think most of my listeners are most of my audience tends to be newer designers. What could they do? Or even if you are a more experienced designer, but you don't have it in the budget to spend, what would you say three to 503 to $5,000 month? What can we do in the meantime, before hiring somebody such as yourself, because I'm a huge advocate, you all need to outsource this stuff, because Daniela and her team are the experts. And if it's not her, find an expert that does it. It's just like your bookkeeping, it's like, you know, procurement like there are there are experts at what they do that will move you further. In the meantime, Daniella. If I don't have a bucket of money, just sitting there waiting to be spent on my marketing. What can we do in
38:15
the engine? Yeah, I think there are, I think there are like about five things I would recommend. So the first problem is people only market themselves when they're wired. Right? We talked about this earlier, when things are lower, right, the first thing I would do is try to avoid doing that, like market yourself consistently year round. Even if it's one hour a day, even if you have an intern helping you out, do something that is easy and enjoyable, but impactful, impactful enough for you to do consistently year round. Even when you're busy. This is the first and by
38:54
by marketing, you're talking about social media, blogging, email newsletters, things like
38:58
like whatever that means to you. I'm not saying do all of those things, pick the one thing so if that means if your focus is going to be better, no blogs, right? Figure out how to do blogs really well, with one hour a day, whatever that means. Maybe that means that you take you can only write one blog post every three months or every but you're putting the efforts in to be consistent. So and you're doing you're doing it well and you're not letting busyness of your day to day like client work derail you, you're you're doing it regardless. So I think that that's one thing is to be consistent to push through. The other thing I would say typically when you when you can't dedicate as much time as you'd like to sales and marketing, because you have to get the work done. This is usually because you were the most senior person in the company or on your team. And to get out of that cycle. You have to hire either. More people or more experienced people and build processes so that you working in can get done without you. And to do that you need to increase your prices. Yeah, I know that doesn't that's not like marketing advice. It's just like, you need to increase your prices. Yes, business advice. So if you do that, then you can afford and have time to do marketing, because there's other people doing the work for you. And then I would say next, like, start with a overall business development strategy, business development is sales and marketing altogether. So, for example, identify with your business positioning, what do you want to be an expert in? Who is willing to pay a premium for it? And then who are those people build relationships with those people create, like an overarching business development strategy? It could be like, I'm gonna have a spreadsheet of 30 contacts, maybe the real estate agents, general contractors, and I'm going to nurture those relationships in the meantime. And that's going to help me identify, you know, how I want to position myself what I want to focus on, those are going to great relationships for me that are going to bring in sales so that I can then you know, have money to afford in marketing. So think about very folded. Yeah. And then yeah, I would say the last thing is like, I think we talked about finances, right, making sure that you increase your prices and includes marketing into your budgeting your projects today should pay for your marketing, tomorrow or next month. Well, last thing I would say is like, and I feel like people don't talk about this enough. We could talk about all the best, like marketing strategies and tech techniques, how to go about creating your role, we could talk about like, the nitty gritty of it, but you have to believe that you are worth marketing, a lot of people feel ache about sales and marketing, when it's time to actually press publish and post content online to write about themselves and their work. A lot of people shy away from it, because it feels gross, they don't like the idea of promoting their work. And you really, really got to get over that if you don't promote yourself, if you don't feel confident talking about your work online, then who will. So I think that's such a great, I think there's a lot of different tips, but they all kind of feed and relate to one another. They
42:35
definitely do. And I think that the last point that you made, if you know if nothing else you're talking about ourselves can be difficult and promoting our services might feel a little like you said with it feels a little icky. But at the end of the day, what we do is we change people's lives. So if you're uncomfortable helping people or helping improve their lives, then don't hit publish. It's not about it's not about you, it's about your client. It's about the people that you serve. So take yourself out of that factor and look at who who is consuming what we provide. I think that's that's an easy, easy flip, to make that hitting publish a little bit easier. And speaking of processes, I'm going to give a shout out to my interior design business bakery where we teach you the processes, so that you can rinse and repeat and you can become profitable in very elegant and easy to implement. manner. It just it's over and over so that you can become profitable. And then you can hire somebody to help you become to bring better clients to you so that you can implement the knowledge that we teach. So I'm just going to give a little shout out right there. Danielle, a quick question I love I love these conversations, because I'm going to ask you, what book do you recommend reading this? Like what's fiction or whether it is historical or if it's business or self development or whatever? What book or three do you recommend? See I write this down and then I go get to get good. Well, good. I
44:12
recently read that I absolutely loved it has nothing to do with business and marketing. Is that okay?
44:17
Okay. Yeah, that's the mood I'm in. Okay. Okay. You said
44:21
you said like historical and I thought, Oh, okay. So we're going in that direction. So it's called a farewell to gobble and Mercedes. It it's a memoir written by the son of Gabrielle Garcia Marquez. He is a Colombian? Oh, yes.
44:39
Yes. Yes. I
44:41
know. Yes. He wrote 100 years. Yeah, yeah. He's a very famous Colombian writer. He passed away. I can't remember when 2015 I just came up with that number a little while ago. But yeah, he won a Nobel Prize for his literature. He's famous for 100 Here's a solid dude. He's a huge figure in Latin America. And yeah, so when his when he passed away, his son wrote a memoir about the final years of his life and it's beautifully written, The Son is a girl, I find screenwriters have a unique way of writing novels there are a lot more to the point and their their language is very visual. So yeah, the book is a very sad topic. It's about the passing of his father, but he writes it in such a charming, loving, and even funny way. And so I've never heard I've actually never like seen a video or an interview of Gabriel Garcia Marquez. I don't know what he sounds like. But reading the book, I felt like I I knew what he how he walked and how he sounded. So that's a beautiful. Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah, I
45:51
highly recommend a farewell to Cabo and Mercedes. Okay, let's write that down. That's a that's a selfish question that I like to ask. Well, is there any piece of wisdom or advice that you would want to leave with our listeners?
46:09
Ah, lychee is very fragile. Life is so fragile. I really, sometimes feel sorry to see some inquiries come in. And people are in a desperate state, they are reaching out to us to do marketing, because they're just getting by and, and they're not liking their business. They're really having a hard time and trying to get it off the ground. And yeah, I guess to that, I would say like, just man.
46:39
It's so I don't know, I'm sorry. No way. No, that's good. I was gonna say, I think I can I from what you're saying is like, don't wait. Marketing is a key factor in your business. Yeah. And it needs to be done. Well, it's not just something that you can patch work together with school glue. Yeah.
46:59
Yeah, yeah. Especially because you're in the business of, you know, working with people's homes. And that's something that requires time, it requires patience. And so it's like the same with your own marketing, like, do you if you patch works, your marketing and your sales together, if you rush it, then imagine the kind of projects you're going to close the kind of clients you're going to attract, you don't want that you want to attract people that appreciate quality, and the time that it takes to do good design. And to do that you need to walk the talk, you actually need to exhibit those qualities in how you run your every aspect of your business, including your sales and marketing. So yeah, like, if you're, I really encourage people to do marketing and to ask themselves these questions when things aren't going well, not when things are really tough.
47:53
Because because our brain gets skewed when things are tough, we don't see things as they are we see them worse than they are. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Well, how can our audience connect with you, I have a newsletter
48:08
that I'm very proud of. And I would love everyone listening to check it out and consider joining it. If you go to our website, findable digital marketing.com/newsletter, you can sign up, I send it once a month. It's about topics that I think about in the shower, and before I would have died in relation to like running a business, the design and build industry specifically, you know, sales and marketing. We get custom illustrations for it. So we have an illustrator. She illustrates the topics, we send it out on the first of every month. So yeah, I encourage people to join that.
48:46
Learn about me that way. And what was the website?
48:49
It's findable? Digital marketing.com/nick Perfect.
48:55
Good. And I think you have a popup on your or I saw it when I was on your website. I'm gonna have to go sign up for it now. But there is a field for signing up for it as well. Yeah. Good, good, good, good. I will make sure that all of that information is in the show notes. So thank you so much, y'all, if you want a business bestie sending business tips, encouraging words and event updates, oh, maybe two to three times a week, maybe four that goes directly to your fingertips, you can text bestie to 85578 480 to 99. I'll repeat that in just a minute. And you will hear from me on the regular like directly to your phone business tips, encouraging words, event updates. Who knows maybe even a random joke or two if I if I run out of content, but again, that number is 85578 480 to 99. And I promise no spam. So thank you guys for being here. Thank you for listening, Daniela, thank you for your insight and your words of wisdom. It's given me a lot to think about and I know our audience really enjoyed it as well. Oh, thank you, sir. I appreciate you. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And y'all choose to be great today. And every day. Until next time. Hey, y'all. If you love the show and find it useful, I would really appreciate it if you would share with your friends and followers. And if you like what you're hearing, want to put a face with a name, and get even more business advice than join me in my Facebook group. The interior designers business launch pad. Yeah, I know it's Facebook, but just come on in for the training and then leave without scrolling your feet. It's fun. I promise you'll enjoy it. And finally, I hear it's good for business to get ratings on your podcast. So please drop yours on whatever platform you use to listen to this. We're all about community over competition. So let's work on elevating our industry, one designer at a time. See you next time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
